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Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

nytimes.com

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Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#21

Post by kharms »

bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

http://www.radiolab.org/story/91696-new-nice/

This episode of radiolab goes into some theories about the process of fox domestication and hypothesizes that something similar might have occurred in humans.

I don't remember it in enough detail to summarize, but it's a fascinating listen.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#22

Post by sethammons »

My neighbor, when I was young, had a half Siberian Husky half Timber Wolf. While a very independent animal, he was very good around people. He was free to roam our neighborhood and our canyon and he let strangers pet him (though with an air of indifference). He was surprisingly large. One late and dark night, I got dropped off at my house by a friend. As soon as the car left, I saw a large shadowed creature near me. I thought I was about to have an unpleasant bear encounter. Then "Wolfie" sauntered passed me on his way home. He ignored my verbal chastising him for scaring me :)

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#23

Post by atom-morgan »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
huffmsa wrote: post #15

Whereas cats are just different sized versions of their wild varieties. Their small size making it "cute" when they attack you from around a corner.

A friend of mine went into a barn to pick up a streetcat that had lodged there to bring it into the house for the Canadian winter (-40 C forecast that night). There was nothing 'cute' about what he looked like when he got back, it looked like he had been turned into hamburger, nearly lost an eye. Do not underestimate cats in attack mode.

I had to help a friend give a cat a bath once. It literally turned into a cylinder of pure muscle that I could barely control. Plenty of scratches and blood.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#25

Post by acomjean »

I knew someone with a what they claimed was a half coyote half dog mix. It was energetic then it grew up and quite the backyard hunter (which added some credence to the half coyote claim.)

It also became hard to control and somewhat erratic. After a couple biting instances, the last being pretty severe it was decided to put the dog down as it was dangerous to children and the other dogs in the house.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#26

Post by goofingaround »

sethammons wrote: post #18
bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

My first thought was, for sure, the foxes you mentioned. But on the note of no domestic animals avoid some examples of drooping ears, while I'm sure you could find supporting cases, that does not seem to be the norm for horses nor cats. And opposite that, elephants seem to have drooping ears. While the claim might be valid, it feels weak.

One factor that affects the horse is that humans use ear position to assess a horse's mental state. Most trainers teach riders to pay attention to whether a horse's ears are forward, pinned back, etc. Humans therefore may actively select horses with upright ears.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#27

Post by mcny »

sethammons wrote: post #20

This reminds me of some program I watched. They took wolves raised by people and dogs, and then, separately, placed the animal in near reach of food that was in a cage. The dogs eventually realized they could not get to the food and looked at people for help. The wolves never sought human intervention and continued trying to get at the food on their own.

Dogs are better than humans because they can obviously see past the fact that humans look nothing like dogs and still accept humans in their "pack". Even cats seem to have the control when playing with humans to not scratch too deep by which I assume they accept humans in their group as well.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#28

Post by k__ »

goofingaround wrote: post #26
sethammons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought was, for sure, the foxes you mentioned. But on the note of no domestic animals avoid some examples of drooping ears, while I'm sure you could find supporting cases, that does not seem to be the norm for horses nor cats. And opposite that, elephants seem to have drooping ears. While the claim might be valid, it feels weak.

One factor that affects the horse is that humans use ear position to assess a horse's mental state. Most trainers teach riders to pay attention to whether a horse's ears are forward, pinned back, etc. Humans therefore may actively select horses with upright ears.

Also, they aren't predators

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#29

Post by dghughes »

sethammons wrote: post #20

This reminds me of some program I watched. They took wolves raised by people and dogs, and then, separately, placed the animal in near reach of food that was in a cage. The dogs eventually realized they could not get to the food and looked at people for help. The wolves never sought human intervention and continued trying to get at the food on their own.

I saw that too but I can't recall what it was Nature of Things on CBC perhaps or maybe NOVA on PBS.

The two were OK up to a point but at a certain age the wolf dramatically changed compared to the puppy; it was uncontrollable.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#30

Post by dreamcompiler »

huffmsa wrote: post #15

Whereas cats are just different sized versions of their wild varieties. Their small size making it "cute" when they attack you from around a corner.

Cats haven't had their genes messed with by humans for nearly as long as dogs have. In a few millenia, cats will be as varied in appearance as dogs.
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