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How do I startup if I don't own the code?

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Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#21

Post by wheels »

pg wrote: post #18
wheels wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just translating would probably leave it as a "derivative work". However, note that licenses like the BSD and MIT licenses came specifically from universities releasing their code under very permissive terms. Perhaps your university can be convinced to do the same.

How many universities have ever given a startup trouble for making software that was a "derivative work," though? Not one that I know of. In practice it's enough to rewrite under conditions where no one has claim to your IP.

Sure -- a real rewrite would be fine. Porting from, say, C++ to Java probably wouldn't be. (At least I wouldn't found a company on something that potentially shakey.)

I think the point that you're getting at, and I wholeheartedly agree, is that if you understand how something works in and out that rewriting it isn't a big challenge.

Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#22

Post by ken »

When I worked for a university, I asked my boss if I could open-source my code, which was largely funded by NSF. I showed him a license, and summarized it for him. His response surprised me:

"By all means -- anything 'open' is music to NSF's ears, because it means they don't have to pay for several labs to do the same work. I'll mention that in our annual report."

Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#23

Post by chengmi »

pg wrote: post #18
wheels wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just translating would probably leave it as a "derivative work". However, note that licenses like the BSD and MIT licenses came specifically from universities releasing their code under very permissive terms. Perhaps your university can be convinced to do the same.

How many universities have ever given a startup trouble for making software that was a "derivative work," though? Not one that I know of. In practice it's enough to rewrite under conditions where no one has claim to your IP.

It doesn't make sense to sue a startup--it's just not profitable. However, there are instances where universities have appeared to wait for the company or technology to mature before taking legal action. Two examples of this:

University of Wisconsin sues Intel for Core 2 Duo patent infringement: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/intel-sued-for-core-2-duo...

Northeastern University sues Google over Database Architecture: http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/10/google-being-sued-over-...

This goes to show that universities aren't always benevolent when it comes to IP. Even if the software is rewritten, there's no guarantee that university lawyers won't accuse you of infringement down the line.

Isn't licensing specifically designed to address this issue of IP? What would be a reason not to license the software from the university?

Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#24

Post by pg »

chengmi wrote: post #23
pg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many universities have ever given a startup trouble for making software that was a "derivative work," though? Not one that I know of. In practice it's enough to rewrite under conditions where no one has claim to your IP.

It doesn't make sense to sue a startup--it's just not profitable. However, there are instances where universities have appeared to wait for the company or technology to mature before taking legal action. Two examples of this: University of Wisconsin sues Intel for Core 2 Duo patent infringement: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/intel-sued-for-core-2-duo... Northeastern University sues Google over Database Architect…

Neither of these were universities suing their own students.

What would be a reason not to license the software from the university?

(a) That the university might have insanely unrealistic ideas about terms, because they're so inexperienced, and (b) that it could take so long to arrange the deal that it would literally be faster to rewrite it.

Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#26

Post by paulsb »

aneesh wrote: post #3

Talk to the University's tech transfer office.

But don't tell them that someone is interested in your technology. If I were you, I would find out about the status of the IP (who owns, how old it is, etc.) and try to find out if the university is interested in it or not. If they are not interested in it, ask them to sign over the IP to you outright. After you personally own the IP, you can do whatever you want with it, and it will be the universities tough luck that they weren't able to capitalise on the IP when they had it - they've had their chance.

I know of three university spin-out companies that have had IP they developed assigned over to them because the university wasn't interested, upon which successful companies have been formed.

Also, I don't know about tech transfer offices in the states, but in the UK, they are completely incompetent. I wouldn't waste my time or effort in trying to negotiate a licensing deal. You probably could have re-written it by then!

Re: How do I startup if I don't own the code?

#27

Post by chengmi »

pg wrote: post #24
chengmi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make sense to sue a startup--it's just not profitable. However, there are instances where universities have appeared to wait for the company or technology to mature before taking legal action. Two examples of this: University of Wisconsin sues Intel for Core 2 Duo patent infringement: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/intel-sued-for-core-2-duo... Northeastern University sues Google over Database Architect…

Neither of these were universities suing their own students. What would be a reason not to license the software from the university? (a) That the university might have insanely unrealistic ideas about terms, because they're so inexperienced, and (b) that it could take so long to arrange the deal that it would literally be faster to rewrite it.

Neither of these were universities suing their own students.

That's an interesting point, but 1) would the university not have sued if it were a student (or professor) that provided the IP? and 2) then why shouldn't he just use the code outright, especially since he claims to have written it and the university is not likely to care?

(a) That the university might have insanely unrealistic ideas about terms, because they're so inexperienced, and (b) that it could take so long to arrange the deal that it would literally be faster to rewrite it.

Licensing is there for a purpose--someone paid for him to develop this software, so he has an obligation to that employer to at least ask permission before using the software.

Imagine if a startup took seed money from you to develop their software, then turned around to rewrite it for use in another project and thereby sidestepping your 2-10% share. Wouldn't that be unethical? They could even claim both (a) and (b) above.

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