General Motors Is Going All Electric • Hacker News Board

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#21

Post by pacerwpg » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

justboxing wrote: post #3

About Time. Just like Leica dropped the ball on moving on to Digital Cameras, General Motors was slow to get on the Electric Vehicles bandwagon. > "General Motors believes the future is all-electric," says Mark Reuss, the company’s head of product. "We are far along in our plan to lead the way to that future world." Glad to see that they are going all-in.

GM had one of the first EVs in the 90s, the EV1. They jumped in before the technology was there.

They've also been working with gas-electric mixed technology with the Volt since 2010 and more recently the Bolt.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#22

Post by mrlyc » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

> People who park on the street have no realistic way to charge their cars at their homes

Perhaps there could be combined parking meters and charging stations. You would pay a certain amount of money if you just wanted to park and you would pay more if you wanted to charge your car too.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#23

Post by r00fus » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #18

r00fus wrote: post #4

I recently bought an inexpensive electric (Ford Focus Electric 2017), and I can't imagine going back. No gas stations, no oil changes, no transmission failures, no engine breakdowns, no timing belt, no transaxles, overall less costs even energy wise. Also it's got amazing pickup and can beat guzzlers off the line (I've edged out Mustangs, but I haven't gone head to head with a Porsche). So I have to charge every day…

What about batteries wearing out year after year? How much would it cost to change all the batteries in your car?

Recent HN posts for a Tesla indicated wear levels of 10-15% over 5 years. If it's worse than that for me, chargers are now becoming commonplace where I live.

Buy a vehicle with 150% of your maximum daily range and you're fine. Lease if you're even more concerned.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#24

Post by 5ilv3r » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #18

r00fus wrote: post #4

I recently bought an inexpensive electric (Ford Focus Electric 2017), and I can't imagine going back. No gas stations, no oil changes, no transmission failures, no engine breakdowns, no timing belt, no transaxles, overall less costs even energy wise. Also it's got amazing pickup and can beat guzzlers off the line (I've edged out Mustangs, but I haven't gone head to head with a Porsche). So I have to charge every day…

What about batteries wearing out year after year? How much would it cost to change all the batteries in your car?

There is very little year over year wear. After a decade or two in a moderate climate you can expect 80% capacity still.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#25

Post by WorldMaker » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

> So, I guess electric car ownership is effectively another perk of home ownership.

It's another chicken-and-egg bootstrapping problem, though. If everyone had electric cars, there would be more market demand for electrified street parking, and there would be more demand for electric parking spaces in apartment complexes. At some point it becomes less of a market differentiator (luxury apartments use it to stay competitive) and increasingly a market force (every apartment needs it to stay relevant).

Given the pace that the car manufacturers seem to be moving, that transition likely needs to start happening sooner rather than later. (2023 is six years from now.)

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#26

Post by r00fus » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC

mrlyc wrote: post #22

twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

> People who park on the street have no realistic way to charge their cars at their homes Perhaps there could be combined parking meters and charging stations. You would pay a certain amount of money if you just wanted to park and you would pay more if you wanted to charge your car too.

That's an amazing idea.

Also imagine solar covered parking which could be a good moneymaker (sell energy and/or sell preferred parking spots).

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#27

Post by 5ilv3r » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

jlappi wrote: post #17

r00fus wrote: post #4

I recently bought an inexpensive electric (Ford Focus Electric 2017), and I can't imagine going back. No gas stations, no oil changes, no transmission failures, no engine breakdowns, no timing belt, no transaxles, overall less costs even energy wise. Also it's got amazing pickup and can beat guzzlers off the line (I've edged out Mustangs, but I haven't gone head to head with a Porsche). So I have to charge every day…

There are still maintenance/wear items you'll need to address. There are still mechanical components the make up a drivetrain.

Replacing wheel bearings, brakes, and tires? Easy for a garage mechanic, and cheap too.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#28

Post by WorldMaker » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 9:59 PM UTC

foxfired wrote: post #12

twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

They are embracing it now, that's mostly because Tesla has been testing the grounds for the rest. Don't forget that GM had not only terminated all leases then went out of their way to crush all their EV1s[1]. Like a public execution to show that electric cars are bad. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

The Chevy Volt has been around for as long as Tesla (Roadster) has been available to the public.

Revenge of the Electric Car [2] is a great follow-up to Who Killed the Electric Car.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_of_the_Electric_Car

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#29

Post by r00fus » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

5ilv3r wrote: post #24

elorant wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about batteries wearing out year after year? How much would it cost to change all the batteries in your car?

There is very little year over year wear. After a decade or two in a moderate climate you can expect 80% capacity still.

I remember the talking point 15 years ago about Prius batteries being more expensive than the gas they offset. I owned one for 12 years and it still got 50+mpg (old method - more like 48mpg with new EPA calcs) to the day it died (my fault) - same battery.

Also aftermarket reconditioned Prius batteries are like $400.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#30

Post by forapurpose » Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 10:02 PM UTC

I was driving by some town houses[0] in a dense city recently and wondered: How would electric car owners who live there charge their cars? They don't have a driveway or garage or any designated parking place; they find parking on the street in their neighborhood. Unless someone installs charging stations up and down the streets, where will the residents charge their future electric cars?

I read about one city that discontinued a program where electric car owners could reserve a spot on the street and install a charging station. But that is inefficient use for a parking spot that may be empty most of the day.

[0] By "town houses", I mean houses that share the walls on either side with their neighbors; they are lined up side by side. You see them often in dense urban areas. There is no place for a driveway and rarely is precious real estate used for a garage.