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Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

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Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#21

Post by yxhuvud »

missbit wrote: post #16

Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters. Currently this is done with coal & Russian Gas (& French nukes) Dacian has a better way that is actually cheaper than burning gas. Solar power used to directly heat a big thermal mass. He moves generated electricity into big resistors within the concrete block & there is a controller that turn on / off those resistors. Concrete heats up by day & radi…

> Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters

We will see. I trust you noted on the map that the whole of Europe is also reaching higher temperatures than before. We do not know if a slowing Gulf stream will offset the rising temperatures due to global warming, or not. A big reason for uncertainty is that we don't have any long term records of measurements of how much energy is actually transferred by the stream - good measurements only go back less than 20 years or so which is not really enough.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#22

Post by yxhuvud »

kobeya wrote: post #11
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a linked Washington Post article at the bottom, that links to an updated Washington Post article that says: I also quoted two prominent researchers who think this pattern reflects a much feared slowdown in Atlantic ocean circulation, a scenario made famous by the film The Day After Tomorrow. Granted, even if they’re right, what’s happening here will be nothing like the movie. At most, the circulation may be s…

> And with a warming globe overall, there will definitely be no new ice age. That's bullocks. That's not how "global warming" works, which is why scientists are typically careful to call it "climate change." The temperature of a region is predominantly affected by ocean and air currents. Sunny Marseille in France with its Mediterranean climate is the same latitude as New England. Montreal gets bitter cold for 5 month…

> These differences in regional weather at the same or similar latitudes are waaaaay bigger than the few degrees global average increase

This is true, but it is also irrelevant. The keyword 'global average' - global heating will not be uniform. The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. Europe is pretty far north so the effects will be pretty large. Large enough to offset the Atlantic streams? Perhaps, perhaps not.

I'm more worried about changing precipitation patterns, to be honest.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#23

Post by missbit »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #20
missbit wrote: post #16

Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters. Currently this is done with coal & Russian Gas (& French nukes) Dacian has a better way that is actually cheaper than burning gas. Solar power used to directly heat a big thermal mass. He moves generated electricity into big resistors within the concrete block & there is a controller that turn on / off those resistors. Concrete heats up by day & radi…

How is this different to a normal storage heater? Most homes in the UK have them. They turn on when energy is ceap, the electricity heats concrete, the heat is radiated out. So, he invented something that uas been commercially available for decades?

Good to hear the UK is already doing this.

He made a controller that allows solar panels to directly heat the concrete. I'm not sure if he invented anything. He made a controller, open sourced it, and produced & sold them near cost.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#24

Post by missbit »

yxhuvud wrote: post #21
missbit wrote: post #16

Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters. Currently this is done with coal & Russian Gas (& French nukes) Dacian has a better way that is actually cheaper than burning gas. Solar power used to directly heat a big thermal mass. He moves generated electricity into big resistors within the concrete block & there is a controller that turn on / off those resistors. Concrete heats up by day & radi…

> Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters We will see. I trust you noted on the map that the whole of Europe is also reaching higher temperatures than before. We do not know if a slowing Gulf stream will offset the rising temperatures due to global warming, or not. A big reason for uncertainty is that we don't have any long term records of measurements of how much energy is actually transfe…

Yup, there is a chance we don't have do do anything. Then again there is a chance we are completely effed.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#25

Post by s_kilk »

yxhuvud wrote: post #22
kobeya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And with a warming globe overall, there will definitely be no new ice age. That's bullocks. That's not how "global warming" works, which is why scientists are typically careful to call it "climate change." The temperature of a region is predominantly affected by ocean and air currents. Sunny Marseille in France with its Mediterranean climate is the same latitude as New England. Montreal gets bitter cold for 5 month…

> These differences in regional weather at the same or similar latitudes are waaaaay bigger than the few degrees global average increase This is true, but it is also irrelevant. The keyword 'global average' - global heating will not be uniform. The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. Europe is pretty far north so the effects will be pretty large. Large enough to offset the Atlantic streams? Perh…

Temperature change is also effected by distance from water.

For example: +4 degrees C global average would mean about +2 in Ireland, while inland USA soars to +8.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#26

Post by mariushn »

missbit wrote: post #16

Soon Europe will need to expend more energy to heat during winters. Currently this is done with coal & Russian Gas (& French nukes) Dacian has a better way that is actually cheaper than burning gas. Solar power used to directly heat a big thermal mass. He moves generated electricity into big resistors within the concrete block & there is a controller that turn on / off those resistors. Concrete heats up by day & radi…

Would you please help that project by writing a one-page human readable description of what it does?

eg. I'm a non-technical home owner. What do I need to do to save energy in the long term? How much will I spend now, how much will I start saving?

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#27

Post by kobeya »

yxhuvud wrote: post #22
kobeya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And with a warming globe overall, there will definitely be no new ice age. That's bullocks. That's not how "global warming" works, which is why scientists are typically careful to call it "climate change." The temperature of a region is predominantly affected by ocean and air currents. Sunny Marseille in France with its Mediterranean climate is the same latitude as New England. Montreal gets bitter cold for 5 month…

> These differences in regional weather at the same or similar latitudes are waaaaay bigger than the few degrees global average increase This is true, but it is also irrelevant. The keyword 'global average' - global heating will not be uniform. The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. Europe is pretty far north so the effects will be pretty large. Large enough to offset the Atlantic streams? Perh…

> The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen.

I see no basis for this assertion.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#28

Post by yxhuvud »

kobeya wrote: post #27
yxhuvud wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These differences in regional weather at the same or similar latitudes are waaaaay bigger than the few degrees global average increase This is true, but it is also irrelevant. The keyword 'global average' - global heating will not be uniform. The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. Europe is pretty far north so the effects will be pretty large. Large enough to offset the Atlantic streams? Perh…

> The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. I see no basis for this assertion.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_amplification for details.

Re: Cold spot in the Atlantic: scientists think their worst fears have come true

#29

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

yxhuvud wrote: post #28
kobeya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The closer an area is to the poles, more heating will happen. I see no basis for this assertion.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_amplification for details.

From the linked Wikipedia article:

Where the atmosphere or an extensive ocean is able to convect heat polewards, the poles will be warmer and equatorial regions cooler than their local net radiation balances would predict.*

In the extreme, the planet Venus is thought to have experienced a very large increase in greenhouse effect over its lifetime,[3] so much so that its poles have warmed sufficiently to render its surface temperature effectively isothermal (no difference between poles and equator).

Both palaeoclimate changes and recent global warming changes have exhibited strong polar amplification, as described below.

Both palaeoclimate changes and recent global warming changes have exhibited strong polar amplification, as described below.

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