China Blocks WhatsApp • Hacker News Board

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#21

Post by paralelogram » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #4

How does the blocking actually happen? What if people used a decentralized service, that worked over https?

All traffic to/from some IP addresses is blocked, additionally all Chinese DNS servers respond with random A records when the domain name is banned, for example:

  $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6
  facebook.com            A       8.7.198.45
  $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6
  facebook.com            A       243.185.187.39
  $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6
  facebook.com            A       243.185.187.39
  $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6
  facebook.com            A       46.82.174.68
  $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6
  facebook.com            A       59.24.3.173

(202.97.0.6 is an open resolver in China)

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#22

Post by msla » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

meri_dian wrote: post #15

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

This is very essentialist, and I'll only point out that, prior to the Renaissance, you could say very similar things about European cultures.

In short, history explains, it doesn't justify. And this can be explained even better by a closed oligarchy wanting to stay in power.

Edited to add: Modern Western countries have had experiences with autocracy as well. Do you think there's some deep cultural reason Germany went Nazi which sets it apart from France or the UK? How about Spain and Portugal?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#23

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:56 PM UTC

meri_dian wrote: post #15

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

[deleted]

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#24

Post by CamperBob2 » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:56 PM UTC

0xbear wrote: post #14

So brown nosing with comrade Jinping did not have a desired result. For those not aware: Zuck asked him to name his first born. Jinping declined. :-)

Interesting. Got a link that backs up this rather surreal claim?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#25

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #10

aaron-lebo wrote: post #3

Well, at least Mark didn't sacrifice his child for that. What's the end game here? In the early 2000s it seemed like China was going to become this liberal democracy, but it just seems like the government is getting more and more power and control. Is there any sign this (and the rise of several authoritarians) is gonna stop? This made me think of Fukuyama (1989): What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the…

The whole world is in a giant financial bubble. These acts are desperate measures to control people because they know how bad things are going to get. They need to be able to control the channels of communication to stamp out dissent.

[deleted]

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#26

Post by azurezyq » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #5

aaron-lebo wrote: post #3

Well, at least Mark didn't sacrifice his child for that. What's the end game here? In the early 2000s it seemed like China was going to become this liberal democracy, but it just seems like the government is getting more and more power and control. Is there any sign this (and the rise of several authoritarians) is gonna stop? This made me think of Fukuyama (1989): What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the…

I don't think there's any sign it will stop. The standard prediction used to be that prosperity would bring democracy, but that's looking to be either wishful thinking or bad extrapolation from past events.

Democracy and prosperity are orthogonal concepts. I agree both of them are good but prosperity without democracy exist (China and in some sense Singapore) and democracy without prosperity also exists (everywhere).

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#27

Post by dmoy » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

rubenbe wrote: post #13

This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" * Gmail worked fine I returned in early 2017, oh god what a change: * Don't even think about Facebook * Ironically Facebook messenger worked until my session expired * No gmail, google at all (don't remember about Wikipedia) * Whatsapp worked fin…

Google didn't work for me at all in 2011. The VPN I used worked, but then stopped after 2015 ish. I now use free roaming on e.g. t mobile / Google fi / etc which gets around all blocks.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#28

Post by metaphorm » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

meri_dian wrote: post #15

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

Chinese philosophical roots include both Confucianism and Taoism, as well as the imported schools of though associated with Buddhism, and more recently quite a lot of modern Western ideas (particularly Marxism).

Taoism is anti-authoritarian in the extreme. Buddhism is significantly more neutral on the subject but is definitely aligned closely with personal liberation and at minimum it does not make special exceptions for authorities. There are many famous incidents involving Bodhidharma trying to disillusion authority figures about their own authority.

So I disagree with you that there are no Chinese philosophical traditions that are anti-authoritarian or that promote individual liberty. There are, but they are losing right now.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#29

Post by victornomad » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

Last year I went to China, wanted to show a web project I had in internet and it didnt work at all.

My hosting was working perfectly and not blocked at all since I could SSH there. Then I realized that I had some jquery loading from a Google CDN and of course the cdn was banned there. And of course CSS fonts from google and youtube videos didnt work either...

I learned 2 lessons.

1) dont rely on CDNs if you want to have global access. Host everything your self and check that your hosting or any of the mirrors can be accessed everywhere.

2) How long Google tentacles are (and we always keep forgetting)...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#30

Post by aeorgnoieang » Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

yuncun wrote: post #18

rubenbe wrote: post #13

This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" * Gmail worked fine I returned in early 2017, oh god what a change: * Don't even think about Facebook * Ironically Facebook messenger worked until my session expired * No gmail, google at all (don't remember about Wikipedia) * Whatsapp worked fin…

>* Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" Hmm I find this hard to believe because the massacre is known as the June Fourth Incident. "tiananmen" is the location, and blocking that would seem a bit strange for people trying to find directions, etc.

I'd expect them to block "tiananmen", the search of those exact Latin characters.