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World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

torrentfreak.com

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Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#21

Post by BrandonM »

patrickk wrote: post #20
rick888 wrote: post #2

I wonder what the response would be like if there was a party dedicated to breaking the GPL. Piracy seems to be fine, but anybody that violates an open source license like the GPL gets demonized like they are a criminal.

Being mistrustful of copyright laws seems to be a hacker ethic. The price of an open web is to tolerate a certain amount of piracy. Sure, you could stamp out 99% of piracy on the web, by logging usage, throttling traffic, suing teenagers and deploying other heavy-handed tactics. But at what cost? I would argue that having an open web is better than trying to prune it to perfection. You will snuff out innovation and k…

> How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app?

I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#22

Post by patrickk »

BrandonM wrote: post #21
patrickk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being mistrustful of copyright laws seems to be a hacker ethic. The price of an open web is to tolerate a certain amount of piracy. Sure, you could stamp out 99% of piracy on the web, by logging usage, throttling traffic, suing teenagers and deploying other heavy-handed tactics. But at what cost? I would argue that having an open web is better than trying to prune it to perfection. You will snuff out innovation and k…

> How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app? I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?

A way of saving money. Thinking about this again, its probably extremely presumptuous of me to guess that a lot HN users use pirated software, just as it is presumptuous of you to say that the number is close to 0. There's no way of knowing. I doubt people would come out and admit it....time for a poll maybe?

I recall seeing a TechStars video a few moths back where one of the guys in the program all but admitted he was a software pirate.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1524318

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#24

Post by loewenskind »

KoZeN wrote: post #9

I appreciate the positives and the logical motivation behind this move but does this not provide an opportunity for end-users to torrent more nefarious files? Surely Swedish pedophiles are having a field day? Am I missing something?

Who cares? Seriously, even if they are, who cares? The biggest problem with child pornography is that customers drive production of it which drives creation of it. But if some guy is using an anonymous ISP to anonymously download a file for free what possible impact can that have?

You might say that some people would get off on creating it and putting it up on the internet for free, but what's stopping them from doing everything but that last step now?

I don't think torrenting has an effect on it either way, but if you do please provide your argument.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#25

Post by Yaggo »

rick888 wrote: post #2

I wonder what the response would be like if there was a party dedicated to breaking the GPL. Piracy seems to be fine, but anybody that violates an open source license like the GPL gets demonized like they are a criminal.

The ones who usually violate the GPL are companies trying to profit from it. I don't care if an individual breaks a licence or copyright laws, it just tells that markets don't work¹. For example, I pirate HD movies only because nobody sells me them over the net as on-demand.

[1] ... and the industry actively breaks it by creating artificial market regions and distribution restrictions. Hard to see why I'm not allowed to rent a movie from iTunes due to my physical location.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#26

Post by paul9290 »

It's 2010 and at least here in the U.S. the pirating activities of millions prompted Hulu, Vevo and other great legal sites to get content. Hollywood bended which is great and downloading is so 2005. If your pirating and outside the US then more power to you as you dont have legal alternatives - yet.

If your in the US I wonder why are you still pirating copyrighted material? Im curious to hear...

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#27

Post by KoZeN »

Dementati wrote: post #15
KoZeN wrote: post #9

I appreciate the positives and the logical motivation behind this move but does this not provide an opportunity for end-users to torrent more nefarious files? Surely Swedish pedophiles are having a field day? Am I missing something?

Are you willing to give up all manner of personal privacy if that means you're able to more easily apprehend criminals of various kinds? Is monitoring filesharing sites the most effective way of fighting pedophilia?

I was hoping the comment wouldn't come across as scaremongering but on reflection I probably should have worded it better.

All valid points and I humbly stand corrected.

I wasn't suggesting that this will directly increase that form of activity but I was more curious as to the possible negative applications an annonymous IP service would subsequently provide to those looking to take advantage of the system. I still am curious to be honest.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#28

Post by henrikschroder »

KoZeN wrote: post #27
Dementati wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you willing to give up all manner of personal privacy if that means you're able to more easily apprehend criminals of various kinds? Is monitoring filesharing sites the most effective way of fighting pedophilia?

I was hoping the comment wouldn't come across as scaremongering but on reflection I probably should have worded it better. All valid points and I humbly stand corrected. I wasn't suggesting that this will directly increase that form of activity but I was more curious as to the possible negative applications an annonymous IP service would subsequently provide to those looking to take advantage of the system. I still a…

If you're the police, and if you have evidence that a user of this ISP is distributing child pornography, and if you ask nicely, I'm sure they'll help out.

But if you want blanket surveillance, or if it involves some teenager downloading music, they'll (rightly) tell you to go away.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#29

Post by patrickk »

BrandonM wrote: post #21
patrickk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being mistrustful of copyright laws seems to be a hacker ethic. The price of an open web is to tolerate a certain amount of piracy. Sure, you could stamp out 99% of piracy on the web, by logging usage, throttling traffic, suing teenagers and deploying other heavy-handed tactics. But at what cost? I would argue that having an open web is better than trying to prune it to perfection. You will snuff out innovation and k…

> How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app? I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?

'Are you a software pirate?' poll

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1532394

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#30

Post by rick888 »

patrickk wrote: post #20
rick888 wrote: post #2

I wonder what the response would be like if there was a party dedicated to breaking the GPL. Piracy seems to be fine, but anybody that violates an open source license like the GPL gets demonized like they are a criminal.

Being mistrustful of copyright laws seems to be a hacker ethic. The price of an open web is to tolerate a certain amount of piracy. Sure, you could stamp out 99% of piracy on the web, by logging usage, throttling traffic, suing teenagers and deploying other heavy-handed tactics. But at what cost? I would argue that having an open web is better than trying to prune it to perfection. You will snuff out innovation and k…

"How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app? Quite a few I'd bet. If your fledging web app is a success, whose software are you gonna buy when you are successful? The one you 'test-drove' as a pirate of course. "

Possibly. But there aren't really any real stats to back this up.

"Why do you think the tech industry and the web grew out of America and not some other wealthy country? It's because America tolerates a certain amount of rebellious, anti-authoritarian behavior (among other things)."

The GPL is becoming its own dictatorship and when people like Chris from thesis go against the ideals, he is treated like a criminal. The GPL is no different than proprietary software licenses. Companies and people involved in both want people to abide by their rules. However, only one seems to be supported here on HN and other communities. It's very hypocritical and it's one of the reasons why I can't take the community seriously.

"I'm not pro-piracy per se, but I believe a certain amount has to be tolerated as the alternative is a police state on the web."

This is a little extreme. The alternative is not a "police state". The alternative is respecting someone's rights, even if you don't agree with it (don't pirate something you don't want to pay for).

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