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Cutting your salary by 40%

codewithoutrules.com

21–30 of 451 posts

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#21
As much as I'd love to believe the "work more than 40 hours a week, because SCIENCE!" party line, I have a hard time accepting it, and I think so do most people who hear it (outside of HN, at least).

For one thing, it's highly convenient that the standard US work-week happens to be the exact "correct" amount of hours to work to maximize productivity.

For another, anecdotally at least, most people know plenty of people who work longer hours and do it successfully. And most of the really successful people out there will mention that they worked insanely hard at some point. Are they all lying? All wrong?

The article itself mentions people doing extra hours of coding on personal projects, and we all know some people who have started companies that way. What, do these projects simply not exist? How does that make any sense?

You can think it's exploitation to ask people to work hard, but this is to work on a team with a world-class researcher who most people would love to work with. Is it too much work for some people? Sure. Are there others for whom it is worth the trade-off? Probably. Why does everyoªne on HN just assume they know better than those people themselves, and set off to make them feel bad and exploited? Working really hard is a totally legit and rational choice under some circumstances.

(Btw, worth pointing out that this article is at least partly a pitch for a book about working less hours. Not saying this invalidates its points, but it is certainly taking advantage of the publicity Andrew Ng's post has gotten to sell a product).

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#22
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Props for standing up for yourself and not letting them use you without proper compensation. I'm sure you'll be better off somewhere else, where they actually value your personal life & free time.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#23
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

That sounds really horrible. I'd rather be out of a job than work for some place like that. What kind of a job are you looking for? I assume you're some kind of engineer, but on my phone so didn't look into anything.

I'm a Level 2/3 SysAdmin/Engineer in the ATL area. But I do "develop" in POSH if you can call that coding. I'm learning python now.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#24
post #5

Tangential: I loved the "When programming is your hobby" part of this blog post. Finally someone accepting, and not dissing, people who actually like to code . The advice is spot-on, too: coding > 40h / week is fine, but why give up your freedom of choosing what to work on, when to work on it, and when to take time off, without any compensation?

Yeah, except what this actually means is, "You don't have any interests outside of work and you do not have kids that may take you away from work and you don't have a SO/spouse to tell you that you're being taken advantage of."

It's not really about your interests, it's about you being naive.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#25
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Call up an employment lawyer. Firing someone for not working on their vacation is wrongful termination.

Companies that do this need to be sued out of existence.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#26
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Keep it professional. Next time he tries to manage you by stress, respond:"okay so let's discuss overtime pay multiplications". He wants you to do more, he won't fire you, so he only has to see the costs properly and understand that you are more serious about the overtime than him. I have one kid so far, and zero overtime, I can't even imagine how it will be with three.

He was fired.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#27

Cool post! What happens when every company is doing this ritual? I'm starting to notice a very bad trend. Just like how LA has record numbers of homeless people, it also has a high vacancy rate. Similarly, despite plenty of "open positions", candidates are being denied left right and center, even as they do their best to signal that they will do anything for the job.

Every company will not follow this ritual. Despite what some folks think, not every technology is run by 20-30 somethings without families. I know quite a few engineers in my city, and I've never heard any one of them say they are compelled to work more than 40 hours a week[0]. This includes engineers at at several "household name" companies.

Yes, some companies have poor management, but these companies are also not exclusively tech companies.

[0] Yes, sometimes we all work a bit of overtime because of issues in the field, or one poorly run iteration. These things happen. The critical thing is how management works to avoid those situations in the future.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#28
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Keep it professional. Next time he tries to manage you by stress, respond:"okay so let's discuss overtime pay multiplications". He wants you to do more, he won't fire you, so he only has to see the costs properly and understand that you are more serious about the overtime than him. I have one kid so far, and zero overtime, I can't even imagine how it will be with three.

"he won't fire you"

OP literally starts the post saying he was fired.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#29
So few companies realise that working 70-90 hours / week calls for introspection not celebration. Fortunately, I never had a job where I had to put unreasonable hours against my will but I have heard stories of people who went through the ordeal and they share a common element: the capacity to think better solutions dampens which effectively makes 70 hour work-week, a It's sad that only a fraction of people in managerial positions understand this dynamic. It's always people who work 'hard', who are more in the office, get admired and promoted.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#30
post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Not sure why we're not in the habit of naming and shaming these organizations.
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