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China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

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Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#21

Post by notgood »

marian0_ wrote: post #3
nickthemagicman wrote: post #2

Jesus that's so repressive. And I'm sure the laws are pretty subjective as well or at least not something the average chat admin is fully up to speed with. Essentially the outcome of this will be to kill chats or send it underground to tor or something.

In Spain, you as a website admin can be found liable for unlawful messages left by your users too. So it's not like this is unexpectedly repressive for me. A verdict that shows so: http://www.asesoriayempresas.es/jurisprudencia/JURIDICO/1959...

Not really, it says: "Conocimiento efectivo por la demandada del contenido de los comentarios alojados por terceras personas en su web. Remisión de fax en el que se advierte de la existencia de estas comunicaciones lesivas al honor del demandante: Al rehusar este fax la demandada incumple su deber de diligencia."

Which translates: "Effective knowledge by the plaintiff of the stored messages by third-parties on his website. Fax receiving in which [the admin] was informed of the lascivious messages to the plaintiff. By refusing the FAX the defendant breaches his duty of diligence"

So this case was about sexual comments against a specific person for which the owner of the site refused to delete such comments; so little to nothing to do with censoring messages against the state.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#22

Post by swsieber »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #9

These laws are starting to appear now because for the first time AI and machine learning are making censorship at this scale economically feasible.

* making attempts of censorship at this scale successful.

There will be false positives and negatives. Lots.

But, this is a really good insight . Why play whack a mole when you have a mole recognition guided bazooka. No more moles.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#23

Post by scottLobster »

brd wrote: post #10

The regulations also demand that all chat room users in mainland China verify their real identity... Effective 8 October, the following types of content will be prohibited in chat groups on China-based messaging platforms: 1. Sensitive political content 2. Rumors 3... Holy shit. What is this going to do to the Chinese tech scene? The liability being created here is crazy to consider. Lets all hope these practices are…

I'm no expert on China, but this fits the pattern of them making extreme laws (ie death penalty for corruption) and then selectively enforcing them. Laws are tools for the party to use when it feels it might benefit, not universal rules.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#24

Post by chaostheory »

revelation wrote: post #12
brd wrote: post #10

The regulations also demand that all chat room users in mainland China verify their real identity... Effective 8 October, the following types of content will be prohibited in chat groups on China-based messaging platforms: 1. Sensitive political content 2. Rumors 3... Holy shit. What is this going to do to the Chinese tech scene? The liability being created here is crazy to consider. Lets all hope these practices are…

It just means they can jail or shutdown who they want. Of course they could and have done that before, so really there is no change. Law isn't what paper says, but what the ruling party decides.

It's also who your friends and family are in the CCP.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#25

Post by ue_ »

ferongr wrote: post #19
yarg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Communist Party does not practice communism - it never has. They are no more communists than the DPRK is democratic. Communism was co-opted very early on and became just another form of authoritarianism.

No true Scotsman?

No, NTS applies to cases in which an additional qualifier is added to an object after a claim made by someone in order to disqualify that object from being a Scotsman. In this case, it is not the case - Communists of many stripes, even the some who follow Marxism-Leninism have been critical of the CPC and DPRK. Even the Maoists themselves disavow Chinese Communism after Deng's reforms. Left-communists have always been critical even during the Soviet Union's time. Socialist George Orwell was critical of the Soviet regime. Anarcho-Communist Kropotkin was critical of the Bolsheviks. The Mensheviks were critical of the Bolsheviks, etc. The list goes on.

In short, a great many Communists have not supported the Soviet CP nor the Chinese state, from their inception all the way to now. I've yet to see any evidence of an NTS fallacy.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#27

Post by adventured »

revelation wrote: post #12
brd wrote: post #10

The regulations also demand that all chat room users in mainland China verify their real identity... Effective 8 October, the following types of content will be prohibited in chat groups on China-based messaging platforms: 1. Sensitive political content 2. Rumors 3... Holy shit. What is this going to do to the Chinese tech scene? The liability being created here is crazy to consider. Lets all hope these practices are…

It just means they can jail or shutdown who they want. Of course they could and have done that before, so really there is no change. Law isn't what paper says, but what the ruling party decides.

> Of course they could and have done that before, so really there is no change.

It's almost never about acquiring new power, they don't need that. It's about enforcing policy through a more specific enlightenment (ie don't do this, this isn't acceptable, etc). In other words, it's encouragement to aggressively keep with the line they've drawn. The party goals are dramatically easier to achieve/uphold if they have lots of lower level hands willingly helping.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#28

Post by roceasta »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #9

These laws are starting to appear now because for the first time AI and machine learning are making censorship at this scale economically feasible.

Yes, feasible, but what makes large-scale censorship so apparently desirable, or at least so widely desired? The first obvious thought is that there are repressive governments around the world who wish to keep power. And this is true. But it can't be the whole explanation since plenty of relatively free western democracies and businesses are enthusiastically embracing censorship, laws about 'hate speech', and so on.

My guess is that a clue lies in the censorship going on much closer to home, in our own minds. Thoughts which contradict our ideas about who we are and what we should do are suppressed all the time. They fail to reach the light of consciousness. In other words, like the individual mind, it seems the hive mind must eventually develop an ego.

Re: China Makes Chat Group Administrators Criminally Liable for Unlawful Messages

#30

Post by ue_ »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #14

Comrades don't need to indoctinate when is way easier for them to just censor by making illegal everything they don't like. Didn't Maduro in Venezuela told its minions a month ago to prosecute twitter users who expressed dissent? He even inspired them to put them 30 years in jail. What we are seeing here is the instantiation of that strategy in internet messages. That doesn't mean that it is not their normal for ever…

>Remember this the next time that The Economist, Time magazine or New York Times tries to talk about "the wonders" of communism.

Could it be that, if they talk in favour of it, they have a different idea of Communism to you? Modern Communist academics do, we must investigate the ontology of Communism; a good read on this is from Badiou, The Communist Hypothesis. Most modern academic Communists believe that we must search for what happened, how to prevent it and how to move past it, to say nothing of the various splinters and brothers in the Communist family tree - anarchism, Communailsm, democratic Socialism, etc.

If you do reading on Communist literature since about 1950 you'll see they have occupied themselves with this investigation, the very one you are accusing them of ignoring.

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