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New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

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Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#21

Post by sowbug »

lb1lf wrote: post #12

I am a long-time watch nut, and I loved this write-up - it concisely explained what makes this mechanism unique and was most educational. Fun to see a departure from the norm - until this, the probably largest innovation horology over the past couple of hundred years was George Daniels' coaxial escapement (which basically eliminated friction from the equation, ensuring all transfer of energy in the escapement took pl…

There's one basic question I couldn't figure out from the article. Where is the spring that you wind up and that stores the "power reserve of about 60 hours"? Is it part of the silicon? Or is it external? I figured out that the three crescent-shaped parts are springy ("flex laterally to provide a restoring force as the oscillator vibrates through six degrees of amplitude"), but it doesn't look like there's anything else that could stretch/relax over 60 hours. My sense of intuition is useless, of course, at this scale and with these materials.

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#22

Post by anfractuosity »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #18
anfractuosity wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't one of the first tourbillon mechanisms in a carriage clock though? I thought this was pretty cool regarding tourbillons: http://www.laimer.ch/laimer_tourbillon I'm not sure what that would be classed as though. Edit: Oh, doh, I misunderstood you, yeah I see what you mean

Yeah, that would make sense. And (googles) you can get a tourbillon clock in your carriage today -- if your carriage is a Bentley Bentayga.

Haha, awesome. Since the tourbillon spring mechanism seems to be constantly rotated with the gyro version, I wonder if there is another way to mechanically keep the tourbillon always level?

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#23

Post by sowbug »

olympus wrote: post #16
sbmassey wrote: post #5

All this technology is amazing, but does it have any applications beyond mechanical timepieces?

Realistically, no. The design is very clever, but nothing is truly new here. You could have made this out of wood 200 years ago, but it would have been much bigger and less precise. Using silicon for a mechanical device is neat, but not new. All the technology in terms of the movements- springs, levers, escapements, wheels, gears- has been known for a while. New designs are pretty much all digital (for better or for…

Is silicon-material manufacturing now within reach of industries other than IC manufacturers and high-end watch manufacturers? If so, you could imagine all sorts of mechanical devices that will experience a renaissance now that they can be precisely designed and manufactured in tiny sizes and in huge numbers.

I suspect I just reinvented nanotechnology. For some reason, this watch article makes it feel much more real.

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#24

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

Much more practical but much less accurate than an atomic wristwatch[1]. I wonder how small a cesium frequency standard could be made. Miniaturization isn't typically a priority in their design, there's surely room for improvement.

[1] http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ (Yes, that is a guy with an HP-5071A strapped to his arm.)

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#25

Post by anfractuosity »

sowbug wrote: post #23
olympus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, no. The design is very clever, but nothing is truly new here. You could have made this out of wood 200 years ago, but it would have been much bigger and less precise. Using silicon for a mechanical device is neat, but not new. All the technology in terms of the movements- springs, levers, escapements, wheels, gears- has been known for a while. New designs are pretty much all digital (for better or for…

Is silicon-material manufacturing now within reach of industries other than IC manufacturers and high-end watch manufacturers? If so, you could imagine all sorts of mechanical devices that will experience a renaissance now that they can be precisely designed and manufactured in tiny sizes and in huge numbers. I suspect I just reinvented nanotechnology. For some reason, this watch article makes it feel much more real.

Have you heard of MEMS before?

There seems lots of cool applications for that, apparently also Timex is bringing out a watch which uses the technology in some way ( http://www.ablogtowatch.com/timex-silmach-watch-movements-me... ).

Also MEMS is used in DLP projectors, where lots of tiny little mirrors can be moved which seems rather amazing.

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#26

Post by lb1lf »

craigsmansion wrote: post #20
lb1lf wrote: post #12

I am a long-time watch nut, and I loved this write-up - it concisely explained what makes this mechanism unique and was most educational. Fun to see a departure from the norm - until this, the probably largest innovation horology over the past couple of hundred years was George Daniels' coaxial escapement (which basically eliminated friction from the equation, ensuring all transfer of energy in the escapement took pl…

> the probably largest innovation horology over the past couple of hundred years There was this little thing called the quartz revolution though :) Just because it turned out you can make really cheap watches with it doesn't make it less of an innovation. But limiting the field down to mechanical watches, there is also Seiko's springdrive which manages to combine the durability of mechanical watches whilst approachin…

Fair point. Spring drive is a very fascinating concept and one could debate for weeks on end in the right (or, rather, wrong) circles whether it or co-ax holds the top spot. (Or whether the spring drive is even a fully mechanical movement or a hybrid!)

(And I should have been more precise - I meant in mechanical horology; my apologies)

Not that there's anything wrong with quartz (except its inherent inaccuracies; I say this tongue-in-cheek as my interest in all things horological extends to my having a rubidium standard in the man cave - a hand-me-down HP 5065A. Sadly, my wife does not appreciate the beautiful engineering, and suggested a Seiko wall clock would have to do for our everyday time-keeping needs...)

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#27

Post by y04nn »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #24

Much more practical but much less accurate than an atomic wristwatch[1]. I wonder how small a cesium frequency standard could be made. Miniaturization isn't typically a priority in their design, there's surely room for improvement. [1] http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ (Yes, that is a guy with an HP-5071A strapped to his arm.)

You can also get a radio controlled watch

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#28

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

sowbug wrote: post #21
lb1lf wrote: post #12

I am a long-time watch nut, and I loved this write-up - it concisely explained what makes this mechanism unique and was most educational. Fun to see a departure from the norm - until this, the probably largest innovation horology over the past couple of hundred years was George Daniels' coaxial escapement (which basically eliminated friction from the equation, ensuring all transfer of energy in the escapement took pl…

There's one basic question I couldn't figure out from the article. Where is the spring that you wind up and that stores the "power reserve of about 60 hours"? Is it part of the silicon? Or is it external? I figured out that the three crescent-shaped parts are springy ("flex laterally to provide a restoring force as the oscillator vibrates through six degrees of amplitude"), but it doesn't look like there's anything e…

That spring will be connected to drive the escapement. The resonator is the equivalent of a pendulum, even though it contains a spring. The escapement wheel is driven by a non-constant force from the drive spring. The resonator regulates its motion to tick at a regular rate, and in so doing draws power to keep resonating. The rest of the watch is driven from the same source.

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#29

Post by jonsen »

sowbug wrote: post #21
lb1lf wrote: post #12

I am a long-time watch nut, and I loved this write-up - it concisely explained what makes this mechanism unique and was most educational. Fun to see a departure from the norm - until this, the probably largest innovation horology over the past couple of hundred years was George Daniels' coaxial escapement (which basically eliminated friction from the equation, ensuring all transfer of energy in the escapement took pl…

There's one basic question I couldn't figure out from the article. Where is the spring that you wind up and that stores the "power reserve of about 60 hours"? Is it part of the silicon? Or is it external? I figured out that the three crescent-shaped parts are springy ("flex laterally to provide a restoring force as the oscillator vibrates through six degrees of amplitude"), but it doesn't look like there's anything e…

This video lecture might interest you:

http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/15895-an-electrical-engineering...

Re: New oscillator system in Zenith mechanical watches

#30

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

y04nn wrote: post #27
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #24

Much more practical but much less accurate than an atomic wristwatch[1]. I wonder how small a cesium frequency standard could be made. Miniaturization isn't typically a priority in their design, there's surely room for improvement. [1] http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ (Yes, that is a guy with an HP-5071A strapped to his arm.)

You can also get a radio controlled watch

Of course, or a GPS-synchronized smart watch. But where's the fun in that?
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