Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

themarshallproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 152 posts

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#21

Post by throwaway287391 »

subroutine wrote: post #9
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Some quotes from the article makes it seem like they are more worried about the potential social and political backlash, than their personal beliefs on whether she has been rehabilitated. > " We didn’t have some preconceived idea about crucifying Michelle,” said John Stauffer, one of the two American studies professors. “But frankly, we knew that anyone could just punch her crime into Google, and Fox News would proba…

... wow. I'm pretty shocked that a Harvard prof would admit to overturning someone's admission due in part to them being a racial minority, fearing the prospect of bad press from Fox News. Fox has really won the culture wars in a major way.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#22

Post by danso »

I've been less of a fan of "Shawshank Redemption" as I've grown older, cynically seeing it as being overly Pollyannish, but this sounds like a scene right out of it:

> Incarcerated in 1996, Jones worked for five years in the law library at Indiana Women’s Prison, and got certified as a paralegal. She received a bachelor’s degree from Ball State University in 2004, and audited graduate-level classes at Indiana University.

> Her blossoming as a historian began in 2012, when Kelsey Kauffman, a former professor who volunteered at the prison, encouraged inmates to research the origins of their involuntary home, which opened in 1873 as the first adult female correctional facility in the United States. Soon, Jones was placing library requests for reference books and, when they arrived months later, scouring the footnotes for what to order next.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#23

Post by masklinn »

justinpombrio wrote: post #6
sgift wrote: post #5

So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many people like this all around the world.

From the professors: "If officials who take a careful look at the case decide that Harvard should move forward, then we think that the university should do everything in its power and ability to welcome Jones here and support her, and we are indeed happy to play a part in that effort,” they continued. “We have stated our concerns as questions, and we hope they are treated as nothing more nor less than questions, not…

OTOH "we're just asking questions" is downright weasely.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#24

Post by Geekette »

kbart wrote: post #10
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Agreed. Also, murdering a 4 year old child should lead to lifelong sentence in any case imho, so sorry, no sympathies here.

She got pregnant at 14 after being raped by a high-school senior, suffered domestic violence from her mother and afterwards in multiple group homes and foster families she was placed in, culminating in a psychological breakdown. Given her state of mind then, this isn't directly comparable to other cases of cold, premeditated murder.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#26

Post by danso »

johan_larson wrote: post #16
sgift wrote: post #5

So, Harvard has professors that don't understand/accept the principles of rehabilitation. Sad, but, unfortunately, hardly shocking. There are many people like this all around the world.

In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. And just try to imagine the magnitude of the blowback if she ever did anything wrong on campus, particularly to some precious darling of wealthy and connected parents. I'm not saying the Harvard administration made the right choice here, but they certainly had cause to be cautious.

So why ever release prisoners? Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#27

Post by danso »

kbart wrote: post #10
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Agreed. Also, murdering a 4 year old child should lead to lifelong sentence in any case imho, so sorry, no sympathies here.

Why?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#28

Post by lucozade »

jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

To my mind, it's not completely unreasonable to argue that the constraints on the state do not necessarily have to be mirrored as constraints on individuals or companies/institutions.

It seems to be similar to the freedom of speech debate regarding the Daily Stormer. The debate largely revolved around whether a company should be able to refuse their business because they found it objectionable even while conceding it was legal.

This is similar I think. From the state's perspective this person has served her time and is free to go about her business. But an institution still finds her objectionable and has refused her admission.

Personally, I'm somewhat conflicted. I would imagine I would find it very difficult to have a professional relationship with this person and, if I was responsible for hiring, would definitely be concerned that hiring her may not be net positive for my organisation. Equally, I'm very aware that this line of reasoning has been used to prolong some very nasty behaviours and I may well be perpetuating one of them.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#29

Post by volkk »

sgift wrote: post #20
volkk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is very interesting. If you're sitting in class and you find out that the person in your group project murdered a 4 year old at one point, I would understand if they were to be extremely uncomfortable. I would also understand if they accepted them and supported the rehabilitation. I don't know how to feel about it, really

Sure. I would probably feel uncomfortable too, but I stop short of saying others should be denied something because I feel uncomfortable. Otherwise, the world would be a very different place.

I think ultimately it's not just the feelings of discomfort, but more like a "tarnished" reputation for Harvard that it probably strives very hard to maintain. (Not that I agree with it)

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#30

Post by roel_v »

jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

The incarceration is the punishment handed out by the state, the state being a proxy of 'society'. There is however no moral obligation for any citizen to take over the stance of that 'abstract society' that a prisoner can be released for whatever reason. In other words, everybody has to right to associate or not with who they want. The extreme example here is that the victim of child molestation at the hand of a parent has no obligation whatsoever to resume contact with the perpetrator after release from prison.

On a meta note, I would be a lot more sympathetic to many 'causes' if only they would choose less reprehensible poster children for their campaigns. I mean, I'm all for prison reform and rehabilitation, but come on:

"In a memo to university administrators, these professors said the admissions dean had told them Jones’s selection would be reviewed by the president and provost, and questioned whether she had minimized her crime “to the point of misrepresentation.”"

"The boy died in 1992 in circumstances that remain unclear; the body was never found."

"At her trial, a former friend testified that Jones confessed to having beaten the boy and then leaving him alone for days in their apartment, eventually returning to find him dead in his bedroom.".

Campaigning on the basis of a child murderer who abused a 4 year old and let him starve to death not being admitted to a top university being 'unfair'? Yeah, good luck with that.

Post reply on HN