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EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

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Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#21

Post by tony101 »

meri_dian wrote: post #6

If they can search your bags without a warrant at the border, why can't they search your phone or laptop? Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.

Checking for digital content at the border doesn't really make sense, given the Internet. Especially as applied to U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who are already authorized to work and live in the U.S. and therefore should have no motive to break immigration laws. If this is not a purely immigration inspection at the border, then the government should get a warrant.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#22

Post by martinflack »

meri_dian wrote: post #6

If they can search your bags without a warrant at the border, why can't they search your phone or laptop? Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.

Your phone / laptop is now digitally connected to everything in your life.

Giving access of that over to a government agent is like handing them a diary of everything you ever thought, a list of everyone you ever met, a record of everywhere you ever went, a list of every book you've ever read, a list of every medication you've ever taken, a list of every game you've ever played, a list of every off-color joke you've ever cracked with friends, etc.

Would you hand that over on paper?

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#23

Post by toomuchtodo »

microcolonel wrote: post #19
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it will attract new revenue from sociopaths. Can't I just like a hoodie?

Heheh, fair enough. But I figure if the hoodie is the deciding factor for whether or not to donate (or how much), then you're just making a purchase.

True true. I donate to the EFF annually but now I can wear their swank hoodie at US border crossings (I am a glutton for punishment).

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#24

Post by tony101 »

rando0o0o0o0o wrote: post #10
__david__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's presumably to prevent you from importing physical contraband into the country. Checking your internet connected device for contraband makes zero sense.

Could they make the argument that they're checking for malicious software/viruses/other bad stuff that could be a threat to Americans?

Then "randomly" and arbitrarily searching people's devices as they cross the border isn't really an efficient way to do it, unless you also set up an intrusive firewall to "protect" the U.S. from malware.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#25

Post by abtinf »

aey wrote: post #4

Donate to the eff. They will send you an awesome hoodie.

A few years ago, I considered starting regular donations to the EFF. Unfortunately, I did not realize they had taken pro position on state intervention and control of the Internet, a concept generally described with the orwellian phrase "net neutrality." This position directly contradicts much of the their advocacy that I wanted to support.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#27

Post by derefr »

martinflack wrote: post #22
meri_dian wrote: post #6

If they can search your bags without a warrant at the border, why can't they search your phone or laptop? Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.

Your phone / laptop is now digitally connected to everything in your life. Giving access of that over to a government agent is like handing them a diary of everything you ever thought, a list of everyone you ever met, a record of everywhere you ever went, a list of every book you've ever read, a list of every medication you've ever taken, a list of every game you've ever played, a list of every off-color joke you've…

Another thing that contains all those same things is "your brain." It's harder to get the facts out of it, but those TSA interview rooms represent an attempt. If that is allowed, then I don't see what's better/worse about searching your digital exobrain instead. Either way, you're handing over "you" on a silver platter.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#28

Post by tony101 »

meri_dian wrote: post #12
__david__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's presumably to prevent you from importing physical contraband into the country. Checking your internet connected device for contraband makes zero sense.

Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.

It could make sense for foreign visitors (to check for intended visa violations, etc.)

But there is no reason to search the devices of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents, who are already authorized to live and work in the U.S. These people would have no reason to break immigration law. And if the government is searching digital content for evidence of other unlawful activity, they should have to get a warrant.

Keep in mind that any digital content you can bring through a border port-of-entry, you can also just send it via the Internet.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#29

Post by derefr »

Interesting question to me: is any country offering easy-to-attain diplomatic-courier status, such that I could (legitimately) label my laptop bag as a diplomatic pouch to protect it from search?

(Yes, it's more complex than this; you'd have to be able to upload a manifest of what's in the bag and what it weighs to some service of that country's government, and then the country's embassy here would forward the manifest to the State Dept and they'd send you a sticker for your bag, etc.)

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#30

Post by lobotryas »

microcolonel wrote: post #19
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it will attract new revenue from sociopaths. Can't I just like a hoodie?

Heheh, fair enough. But I figure if the hoodie is the deciding factor for whether or not to donate (or how much), then you're just making a purchase.

When you donate money you arguably "purchase" the good feeling of doing something "good" and also social validation if you choose to make your donation public.

I think it's a great idea to entice more revenue by giving an option (a hoody) for people who are not interested in "purchasing" the above.

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