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Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

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Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#21

Post by grecy »

dingo_bat wrote: post #18
grecy wrote: post #2

Many companies in countries like Canada and Australia are now trying harder than ever to emulate the United States with it's extremely low wages, health, benefits, etc. for temp or casual workers. Unfortunately, it's a race to the bottom, as tens of millions of Americas will attest to. My simple question is - can we justify treating humans like this in the name of increasing profit?

If I own a company, I can justify anything short of illegal activities to increase profit. If you don't want companies to behave in a certain way, get it outlawed.

I agree 100%.

That is why I am starting a conversation. Change starts with a conversation.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#22

Post by pjc50 »

mabbo wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

Temps are usually not employees of company B, they will be contractors where B are operating as an "agency". If you look at the paperwork everyone involved will be "self-employed"

> pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

It's hard to draft this without completely ruling out even legitimate temp jobs. Does working at the factory for a week make you an employee? How about for a day, or an hour?

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#23

Post by seanmcdirmid »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #7
wiz21c wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

Almost no Belgians in Belgium are homeless. I haven't seen anyone, although there seems to be some in the main capital. I know a lot of refugees live in sheltes and currently there are homeless people in Brussels due to the breakup of Calais. But these people don't want to get asile in Belgium, but want to go to the UK. So that's why they don't receive anything here. That is their choice ofc.

I was going to say, I thought I saw plenty of homeless people in Brussels when I visited awhile ago. Now Switzerland really doesn't have homeless people as far as I can tell.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#24

Post by Shivetya »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #7
wiz21c wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My second question is : why don't union gets bigger and stronger ? Millions can't be put on the brink on poverty without an answer. Yesterday, on a european TV, I saw a documentary about middle class people who became half-homeless (their words). They were just unlucky to loose their jobs. Now I understand they may have had too much credits or debts here and there but, these were middle class, that is, they went down…

Almost no Belgians in Belgium are homeless. I haven't seen anyone, although there seems to be some in the main capital. I know a lot of refugees live in sheltes and currently there are homeless people in Brussels due to the breakup of Calais. But these people don't want to get asile in Belgium, but want to go to the UK. So that's why they don't receive anything here. That is their choice ofc.

No offense, by numbers yet, by percentage of population it is similar to most other countries. We had other such declarations here recently but it all comes down to not seeing what is there to be seen. Homelessness exist in most part because they are invisible to the average person.

2011, 50,000 estimated with ten percent of that permanently on the streets. Number looks low until you realize the population is under twelve million total.

we must never allow ourselves to believe there isn't a problem. don't look a the numbers but concentrate on the percentage of the population.

I know it so much easier to demagogue other countries for their "problem" but do note, countries like the US where I am in report it and have many organizations which exist to remind people there is a problem. That doesn't mean its worse here, by percentages we are below many EU countries but as a physical number it looks bad because we have three hundred million plus people to start with

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#25

Post by tejohnso »

dingo_bat wrote: post #18
grecy wrote: post #2

Many companies in countries like Canada and Australia are now trying harder than ever to emulate the United States with it's extremely low wages, health, benefits, etc. for temp or casual workers. Unfortunately, it's a race to the bottom, as tens of millions of Americas will attest to. My simple question is - can we justify treating humans like this in the name of increasing profit?

If I own a company, I can justify anything short of illegal activities to increase profit. If you don't want companies to behave in a certain way, get it outlawed.

According to the article they, or their affiliates, are violating the law in several ways.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#26

Post by toopok4k3 »

pjc50 wrote: post #22
mabbo wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

Temps are usually not employees of company B, they will be contractors where B are operating as an "agency". If you look at the paperwork everyone involved will be "self-employed" > pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A? It's hard to draft this without completely ruling out even legitimate temp jobs. Does working at the factory for a week make you an employee? How about for…

Yes.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#27

Post by chrisseaton »

toopok4k3 wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temps are usually not employees of company B, they will be contractors where B are operating as an "agency". If you look at the paperwork everyone involved will be "self-employed" > pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A? It's hard to draft this without completely ruling out even legitimate temp jobs. Does working at the factory for a week make you an employee? How about for…

Yes.

If you hire a plumber to do a job in your home for an hour is he now your employee?

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#28

Post by sunir »

pjc50 wrote: post #22
mabbo wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

Temps are usually not employees of company B, they will be contractors where B are operating as an "agency". If you look at the paperwork everyone involved will be "self-employed" > pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A? It's hard to draft this without completely ruling out even legitimate temp jobs. Does working at the factory for a week make you an employee? How about for…

There already is a degree of control test for false contractors.

Who controls the persons time? Who controls their work? Who supplie equipment? Is there an opportunity for profit or loss? Do they have the right to subcontract? etc

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#29

Post by walterbell »

> Fiera’s current clients include some of the continent’s biggest brands including Dunkin’ Donuts and Sobeys; over the years it has made pastries for Costco, Tim Hortons, Metro, Walmart, and Loblaw. Its factories churn out baked goods by the truckload, destined for markets across North America and around the world. They can produce 2 million bagels alone per day.

Retail boycotts have been used against clothing sweatshops.

Is there a reliable way to identify North American baked goods which originate from these temp-labor factories? If all the large distributors use the same suppliers, are there local bakeries which provide better labor conditions and create better product?

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