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I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

houstonchronicle.com

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Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#21

Post by TallGuyShort »

maxerickson wrote: post #10
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

I wonder to what extent the right question is how you stop people from jumping on Zello and trying to help.

My town experienced a disaster a few years ago and volunteers responded with heavy equipment to help within an hour. FEMA took 3 days and there was nothing left to do. I'm not going to go as far as saying FEMA should just be disbanded, but stopping volunteers from helping after just reading the story you read? I'm not sure what that's supposed to achieve.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#22

Post by tolien »

briandear wrote: post #16
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

You might not see an IKEA opening its doors (edit: it looks like the IKEA in Houston isn't doing much either...) but individuals in France were literally "opening their doors to help" [1]

Likewise in London, a waiter held a door to keep terrorists out [2] and people again opened their doors to let visitors to the city stay [3]. The US does not have a monopoly on "the people" looking after themselves.

1: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/attack-in-par...

2: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/waiter-blocks-door-to-stop-ter...

3: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/sofaforlondo...

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#23

Post by bsder »

wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

> Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally?

We do, but what this showed was that the different levels have different uses.

Local levels are distributed and have better latency--they can get to the most immediate problem fastest. National levels are centralized and a little slower but have way better throughput--they can help massive amounts of people over time.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#24

Post by tomcam »

briandear wrote: post #16
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

Why the down votes? Reread several times but couldn't understand the problem

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#25

Post by justin66 »

okreallywtf wrote: post #8
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

I'm not sure why you got downvoted, perhaps downvoters would chime in? I get that local organizations deal with some situations better than some large, clumsy bureaucracy but I tend to agree with wnissen, if this continues as trend relying on a patchwork of individuals (heroic as they may be). I wish there was a non-military or less-military domestic version of this, I've considered joining the national guard for thi…

> I wish there was a non-military or less-military domestic version of this, I've considered joining the national guard for this reason but I'm don't trust that I wouldn't end up fighting and dying in a pointless war. If there was another volunteer force that was devoted to humanitarian issues and search and rescue I would be all for it.

You're basically describing the Coast Guard. I believe they do hire reservists.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#26

Post by jowsie »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #20
briandear wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

I don't know why you were downvoted. This was a great comment.

He was down-voted as he was implying that this is an American only phenomenon, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#27

Post by KGIII »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #19
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

This was the largest disaster in US history and it changed rapidly over the course of 72 hours. In instances like this the ability to tap into the resiliency and adaptability of ordinary citizens is a great advantage. I would like to see more done by the government to enable and support (perhaps even professionalize) the spontaneous engagement of ordinary citizens in emergency situations rather than staffing excess d…

I'm curious about this being the largest disaster in US history. Can you expand on that? Largest by what metrics?

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#28

Post by akgerber »

wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

The Germans seem to have an interesting middle ground with a government-funded/sponsored volunteer disaster relief organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technisches_Hilfswerk

It seems like its size may have been supplemented by serving as an alternative to conscription, however.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#29

Post by maxerickson »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #21
maxerickson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder to what extent the right question is how you stop people from jumping on Zello and trying to help.

My town experienced a disaster a few years ago and volunteers responded with heavy equipment to help within an hour. FEMA took 3 days and there was nothing left to do. I'm not going to go as far as saying FEMA should just be disbanded, but stopping volunteers from helping after just reading the story you read? I'm not sure what that's supposed to achieve.

My post is phrased as a response to the post it is attached too, focusing on the questions about victims deserving a professional response and responders deserving pay and such.

I would be all for stopping volunteers from trying to do rescues (and coordination) if there is evidence that they don't really improve outcomes. For instance, in the article the author helps get information to the Coast Guard, but the better solution there is to make people more aware of the Coast Guard having call centers and to make sure those call centers have capacity, not to have random people passing info along.

Clean up and restoration, not so much, if people want to help with that, whatever.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#30

Post by protomyth »

wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

> And don't the victims deserve organized, professional response?

Frankly, there is never enough money to hire enough people to do all the work. This is the US and we have a long tradition of neighbor helping neighbor. Many of the "amateur" responses are professional grade people. Many areas of the country are covered by volunteer fire departments.

The Red Cross often banks the money, and people should really read the authorizing legislation for FEMA since it is a more limited organization than many think.

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