Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#21

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #12

dctoedt wrote: post #11

This reminded me of something written by noted surgeon (and Rhodes Scholar and MacArthur Fellow) Atul Gawande [0]: If medicine is a craft , then you focus on teaching obstetricians to acquire a set of artisanal skills —the Woods corkscrew maneuver … , the Lovset maneuver …, the feel of a forceps for a baby whose head is too big. … You accept that things will not always work out in everyone’s hands . But if medicine i…

That is one of the most subtly disturbing snippets I've ever read about the state of the medical "system" in the USA.

Atul Gawande is usually fairly disturbing.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#22

Post by Danihan » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #10

uberstuber wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the term craftsman

I prefer the term 'code monkey'

"IT guy"

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#23

Post by trollopTheJope » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

That's right, you're not an engineer.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#24

Post by Cozumel » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

This is why I never touched Laravel, 'The PHP Framework For Web Artisans'. I'm not an 'artisan'. I just code.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#25

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

Artisan? I wish. For the most part a plumber would be more appropriate. I'd like to see a plumber marketing themselves as an artisan.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#26

Post by orthecreedence » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:50 PM UTC

No, an artisan is an artisan. A developer is developer. That's not to say some developers aren't artisans, but a lot of people are developers because it pays the bills: they build things, and are good at building things, because they see it as a means to an end. Some do it as a means of expression: it is their medium for creation. Both modes of operation, and everything in between, are equally viable and valid.

I guess my point is, it's fine to write code and NOT be an artisan. I'd argue that most people who code are not as interested in the creation aspect of is as much as "doing cool stuff" or making money...and that's fine.

But let's not paint all developers with an artisan brush.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#27

Post by disconnected » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:51 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #10

uberstuber wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the term craftsman

I prefer the term 'code monkey'

"Software simian"

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#28

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:51 PM UTC

throwaway2016a wrote: post #7

I was expecting an article focussing on how making software is not engineering said to myself, "not this again." But the article isn't arguing that, the article seems to be arguing we are something more than engineers. There is a subtle implication that engineers are hyper pragmatic and the only thing that is important is that it works. My wife who is a biomedical engineer and makes robots might disagree. In fact, I…

> But the article isn't arguing that, the article seems to be arguing we are something more than engineers.

But we are not even engineers, let alone more.

There are some people active in the production of software that would qualify as engineers but that's a tiny fraction and they're not going to be found too far from medical devices and aerospace.

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#29

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #18

Splendor wrote: post #14

> "Walking the trail of tears with each other..." I know the historical reference but I'm not sure I understand what the author is actually talking about here.

Me either, but it is pretty offensive to compare whatever it is a developer does to an act of genocide.

Too busy changing the world to read up on Native American history. Think of it as artisanal license...

Re: Developer Manifesto – You Are an Artisan, Not an Engineer

#30

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #26

No, an artisan is an artisan. A developer is developer. That's not to say some developers aren't artisans, but a lot of people are developers because it pays the bills: they build things, and are good at building things, because they see it as a means to an end. Some do it as a means of expression: it is their medium for creation. Both modes of operation, and everything in between, are equally viable and valid. I gue…

> No, an artisan is an artisan. A developer is developer. That's not to say some developers aren't artisans, but a lot of people are developers because it pays the bills

That's the norm for artisans (which is just a skilled worker in a trade involved in making things, especially by hand), not a distinction. Artists may be a different story, but artists aren't the same thing as artisans.