A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements • Hacker News Board

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#21

Post by jdmichal » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #16

J-dawg wrote: post #13

I thought the photo of the two basins at 90 degrees to each other was a nice example that it sometimes makes sense to violate the DRY principle. Someone must have looked at installing a gimballed basin, realised how complicated the custom-made gimbal and plumbing would have to be, and thought "screw it, let's just order a second basin". Also, someone really needs to put a lid on that soap container!

You're over thinking it. It only needs to move +/-45 in one plane. Weld a hinge to the wall above the sink. Suspend the sink from the hinge. The radius can be determined by how much flex hose you want to purchase for the drain and supply lines. The same should work for toilets and showers. Run all your drain piping toward the corner of the ship that's always under water. Install these on your showers. http://d2ydh70d…

Honestly, I would have just towed it out empty, flipped it vertical, then loaded people on. That way, only one orientation needs to be supported at all.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#22

Post by cr1895 » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:19 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #7

The stresses on that hull when it is at the 45 degree point during a flip must be immense.

Hmmm...I'm not so sure they are exceptional. The upper section is rather light; no heavy machinery like an engine, no heavy tanks like fuel oil. They'd likely only flip during favorable sea conditions so the accelerations are kept to a minimum. And once the spar bit is submerged some meters the influence of surface waves will be reduced.

Edit: the bending stresses when its being towed horizontally could be quite large too...in long-wavelength swell you'd have either the center more bouyant than the ends or the ends more buoyant than the center. Once you flip it it's supported by bouyancy and filled ballast water.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#23

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:25 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #21

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're over thinking it. It only needs to move +/-45 in one plane. Weld a hinge to the wall above the sink. Suspend the sink from the hinge. The radius can be determined by how much flex hose you want to purchase for the drain and supply lines. The same should work for toilets and showers. Run all your drain piping toward the corner of the ship that's always under water. Install these on your showers. http://d2ydh70d…

Honestly, I would have just towed it out empty, flipped it vertical, then loaded people on. That way, only one orientation needs to be supported at all.

That's what they wanted to do initially but since everyone wanted to be on the flipped ship when it was flipped they refitted it to house people. At that point you may as well find a way cram them in when it's horizontal rather than incur the cost of bringing them out and back on a separate ship.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#24

Post by RugnirViking » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

KekDemaga wrote: post #14

monsieurbanana wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe growing budgets don't make the headlines, or newly created budgets don't enter in the "growing" category.

I learned recently that often when it is said that "budgets are shrinking" it actually means the purposed year over year increase has been cut and in terms of total dollars it continues to increase or stay the same. Not sure if this is the case here but something to look out for.

But due to inflation if it didn't increase the budget would have less value.

At least this is the understanding I have usually been given.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#25

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:46 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #21

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're over thinking it. It only needs to move +/-45 in one plane. Weld a hinge to the wall above the sink. Suspend the sink from the hinge. The radius can be determined by how much flex hose you want to purchase for the drain and supply lines. The same should work for toilets and showers. Run all your drain piping toward the corner of the ship that's always under water. Install these on your showers. http://d2ydh70d…

Honestly, I would have just towed it out empty, flipped it vertical, then loaded people on. That way, only one orientation needs to be supported at all.

There's accommodation for 16 people. I imagine that means something like 4 or 5 showers/toilets/sinks.

Probably more sinks, it would be interesting to see the actual numbers of duplicated fixtures. I didn't find anything with a brief search.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#26

Post by amingilani » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:49 PM UTC

The article didn't address it so I'll just ask: why?

Why do you need to build a flipping (no pun intended) ship?

Couldn't they have just as easily built a tall floating rig that could be dragged by the same tugboat? Why do they even need to change to boat form? Can't they tug it when it's vertical?

Drilling platforms are stable floating structures aren't they? They consist of a stable floating upper platform.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#27

Post by ryanmarsh » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

amingilani wrote: post #26

The article didn't address it so I'll just ask: why? Why do you need to build a flipping (no pun intended) ship? Couldn't they have just as easily built a tall floating rig that could be dragged by the same tugboat? Why do they even need to change to boat form? Can't they tug it when it's vertical? Drilling platforms are stable floating structures aren't they? They consist of a stable floating upper platform.

Because the oil industry was already having these built. It was probably just easier and cheaper to buy one "off the shelf" so to speak rather than have a custom ship designed for this purpose.

Drilling platforms are large and not designed to regularly circumnavigate the oceans. They float but they're shitty boats.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#28

Post by Retric » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

amingilani wrote: post #26

The article didn't address it so I'll just ask: why? Why do you need to build a flipping (no pun intended) ship? Couldn't they have just as easily built a tall floating rig that could be dragged by the same tugboat? Why do they even need to change to boat form? Can't they tug it when it's vertical? Drilling platforms are stable floating structures aren't they? They consist of a stable floating upper platform.

You can tow a ship a lot faster than you can move a drilling platform. But, basically this is a drilling platform. Going horizontal vastly reduces drag, but it's not really designed to be used as a ship.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#29

Post by ryanmarsh » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #6

>As research budgets shrink, and fewer people go into oceanographic research, it’s hard to say what is on the horizon for FLIP. Why is it that budgets everywhere from businesses public/private to government to scientific research are always shrinking? It's like it's the invariant of our age: well you know, budgets are shrinking...

I've heard about shrinking budgets for so long if the statements were true I'd expect all the budgets to be $0 by now.

Re: A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements

#30

Post by rtkwe » Wed, Aug 23, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

ge96 wrote: post #2

Hmm Makes me think like why would they design a hovering rocket crane to lower a Rover autonomously on another planet. There is a reason/it worked, and with this ship hmm, like is that the only solution? You could have floating bouys that have either neumatic or electromagnetic suspension stabilized... But then again the scale/weight of this thing... I guess the design makes sense as far as being able to operate in s…

At this scale it'd be hard to have a system that was as quiet as this passive stabilization. It's stable up to 30 foot seas according to the article, it's no easy feat to create a system that can stabilize seas that large for any size platform.