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Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

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Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#21

Post by oculusthrift »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #5
oculusthrift wrote: post #2

I think this is a brilliant solution for them because of the way their country is setup. (Strong culture with extremely homogeneous population and low birth rate) I really do think a lot of what makes japan special would go away with too much immigration. That being said, America is the opposite and automation would hurt us and so would restricting immigration.

Why would automation hurt us?

a massive part of our population do no-brain jobs that could easily be automated. do you want 30 percent unemployment?

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#22

Post by mc32 »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #4

Makes a lot of sense. Why risk their cultural homogeneity - something clearly valued by the majority of Japan - if there are technological solutions to increasing productivity? Edit - why the downvotes?

I think people tend to project their western cultural framework onto Japan and see it not fitting well.

Much of east Asia is very internal-looking (China was the middle kingdom for a reason). They tend to keep to themselves as a society and value their values from their perspective --not as self-critical as other societies, in some ways. It's something anathema to a number of westerners.

So of course to some people it looks like Japan (or east Asia in general) is not "sharing" in their wealth with others as your implicit agreement is kind of a non-sequitur for some people.

Going on a tangent here, but for example, in India, Dalits will at times use English but primarily western philosophy to argue their position vis a vis the dominant castes because they lend themselves better to examine these questions.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#23

Post by tanilama »

fiblye wrote: post #17
tanilama wrote: post #6

Automation is no cure for Japan. Their influence is waning rapidly, in many sectors. I would say that, with an aging population, Japan is turning into a stale country, culture wise and economy wise alike.

I think the average Japanese person doesn't care about how stale outsiders think they are, and they certainly don't feel like they need a "cure." If anything, society here is reverting more to a norm after being in a massive economic bubble. Really, it's honestly kind of freaky how often I see western media articles about how Japan needs to act now, or they're doomed to fail and their population will vanish. Yet I se…

Sure they are. It is always part of their national pride that being the most advanced Asian country and they treat their Asian neighbors as inferior to them, now and advantage is disappearing, their indifference turns into vile. One proof is their opinion towards China and Korea have dived into new lows in recent years.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#24

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #4

Makes a lot of sense. Why risk their cultural homogeneity - something clearly valued by the majority of Japan - if there are technological solutions to increasing productivity? Edit - why the downvotes?

I agree completely with you. I think you may have been downvoted because you implied that multiculturalism isn't a panacea everywhere. Japan's culture doesn't demand perpetual exponential growth like a lot of capitalistic societies do, thus racial and cultural diversity isn't needed to provide a constantly growing, continually deleveraged workforce like the US does. A homogeneous culture provides a common identity and lowers conflict and miscommunication during interaction. They have low economic inequality and high quality of life. I see very little reason why things should change very much for them.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#25

Post by flukus »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #4

Makes a lot of sense. Why risk their cultural homogeneity - something clearly valued by the majority of Japan - if there are technological solutions to increasing productivity? Edit - why the downvotes?

> Edit - why the downvotes?

Praising cultural homogeneity isn't PC.

They don't realize there are very few truly multi-cultural countries, even for most that say they are multi-cultural, multi-ethnic would be a much more accurate description. True multi-culturalism typically ends up with cultural ghettos and all the pros and cons that they bring.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#27

Post by icanhackit »

neptunespear wrote: post #10

Automation has changed from when Japan was on top. The focus is now on software and open collaboration in a globalized society, not hardware built by factory workers with proprietary standards (looking at you, FeliCa) China may surpass Japan in the automation/AI sphere. Lots of young, English-speaking, western-educated workers, plus the PRC has already innovated so much in manufacturing, shipbuilding, etc., and an ec…

> Automation has changed from when Japan was on top. The focus is now on software and open collaboration in a globalized society, not hardware built by factory workers with proprietary standard s(looking at you, FeliCa)

Like before, won't software and open collaboration merely be an aspect of automation? Who's open-sourced their driverless car tech - anyone with wheels on the ground and a car you can buy? Some advanced mechatronics will be required to fill a lot of voids in the manual labour space. Whose battery tech and engineering prowess will we be using in these vehicles and machines? Japan's?

> As a side note, the fact that Japan has managed zero-growth despite a rapidly shrinking, aging population; almost zero immigration; and roughly the same economic policy as from the 1980s.

That should be praise, no? I mean, aspects of sexism and odd views about social hierarchy can go in the trash, but their productivity is still very good.

> I wonder what Japan is going to do when the population decline really gets in gear around 2040.

With freed up housing and resources? Probably get better pay, make more children and ultimately kick off a new cycle of growth. A bit hard when you're in your 40's and still living with your parents...who are still working at retirement age.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#28

Post by surfmike »

mc32 wrote: post #12

Japan is at the forefront of a post-industrial society. Much of the rest of the west would be in a similar position, if not for imported labor or outsourcing labor. China will be in a similar spot soon. Eventually all of the world will be where they are. The things and lessons they learn and discover will be useful to other mature economies soon enough. The headway will make them leaders in innovating in this area of…

There seem to be two contradictory narratives: one, that rich Western societies are aging and need to make up for a big shortage of workers; and two, that automation has killed and will kill millions of jobs. Probably both trends are true, but each one pulls in the opposite direction for the demand for labor.

Maybe things aren't as bad as people fear on either side.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#29

Post by kingmanaz »

tanilama wrote: post #6

Automation is no cure for Japan. Their influence is waning rapidly, in many sectors. I would say that, with an aging population, Japan is turning into a stale country, culture wise and economy wise alike.

Thank goodness Japan doesn't share the West's bizarre fixation on economics. The market is a means to an end rather than an end in itself. If the economy is not furthering the interests of the Japanese people, its the economy which needs to be replaced, rather than the Japanese people.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#30

Post by theseatoms »

surfmike wrote: post #28
mc32 wrote: post #12

Japan is at the forefront of a post-industrial society. Much of the rest of the west would be in a similar position, if not for imported labor or outsourcing labor. China will be in a similar spot soon. Eventually all of the world will be where they are. The things and lessons they learn and discover will be useful to other mature economies soon enough. The headway will make them leaders in innovating in this area of…

There seem to be two contradictory narratives: one, that rich Western societies are aging and need to make up for a big shortage of workers; and two, that automation has killed and will kill millions of jobs. Probably both trends are true, but each one pulls in the opposite direction for the demand for labor. Maybe things aren't as bad as people fear on either side.

Economic equilibrium does tend to render most of those types of extrapolative predictions moot.
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