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Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

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Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#21

Post by apo »

Pfhreak wrote: post #10

The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…

Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil, that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them.

Do you remember how Communists were treated during the McCarthy era?

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#23

Post by UnpossibleJim »

Pfhreak wrote: post #10

The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…

And that's fine. You get to draw that line in the sand, but you have to do two things: 1) Don't say you are for freedom of expression. you aren't. 2) Be consistent. ISIS propaganda websites must be wholly refused to be hosted. Many (not as fringe as you'd like to think) websites in the Middle East, Eastern Bloc and Russia must also be taken down when discussing the Jews, as well. Any website that blatantly talks about the overthrow of the US government because it is run by the "white patriarchy" (yes, you can be racist against whites too). The lists go on. Denying that a lot of people were killed needlessly in the advancement of a Stalinist ideal, etc. etc.

You get to have that opinion. You get to think that the slippery slope argument is bullshit. That is your right. People told me that I was using a slippery slope argument when I said using the wartime powers act against "terrorism" was a quick sink to unjust presidential powers. I stand by my argument then and I stand by my slippery slope argument now.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#24

Post by Overtonwindow »

cup wrote: post #8

Should all forms of speech be defended and accessible in a public domain? Should instructions on how to make explosives be accessible and defended?

Not saying they should, but they have. Many times. The most famous example would be the anarchist cookbook which is still being printed and sold

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#25

Post by ebola1717 »

cal5k wrote: post #3

It actually makes me incredibly optimistic about the future of humanity to know that such people exist. It's important to fight for the rights of all - you never know when your cause or beliefs will be in the crosshairs instead of a group as obviously vile as neo-nazis.

I'm pretty sure to fight for people's rights, you have to fight against nazis. At least that's what all my history books told me we did in world war 2.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#26

Post by emmelaich »

There are many good quotes on freedom of speech to ponder.[1]

I think my favourite is Mencken's.

> The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

A close second is Wilde's:

> “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself.”

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/freedom-of-speech

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#27

Post by UnpossibleJim »

_qwfv wrote: post #19
CaptSpify wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, didn't the Nazis themselves prevent people from voicing concerns for the Jews? I guess I don't see how that's not the same thing, except that it was the bad guys who did it?

The implicit assertion you've made is that Google, Cloudflare, and Godaddy are acting as a moral equivalent to the Nazis?

No, the compliant populace when the Nazi's were taking over, I think was the comparison.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#30

Post by UnpossibleJim »

ebola1717 wrote: post #25
cal5k wrote: post #3

It actually makes me incredibly optimistic about the future of humanity to know that such people exist. It's important to fight for the rights of all - you never know when your cause or beliefs will be in the crosshairs instead of a group as obviously vile as neo-nazis.

I'm pretty sure to fight for people's rights, you have to fight against nazis. At least that's what all my history books told me we did in world war 2.

as unfortunate as it may be, you not only have to fight against the nazis ideals, but also for their right to hold them and speak them in a public forum, like any other citizen. That's from the history books about the country's founding.
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