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Stop tech-driven problem-solving

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Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#21
post #15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain isn't decentralized. The network is run by a handful of companies, mainly in China.

I was talking about blockchains. Are you talking about Bitcoin? blockchain != Bitcoin blockchain != Ethereum

Arguably for the same reasons though it would be hard to avoid centralization on a public chain where there is reward. For private chains this may be possible to choose such parties that you can trust that the chain is 'decentralized enough'

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#22
post #12

Author provides 2 examples: (1) blockchain and (2) big data Hadoop map reduce (1) blockchain: most arguments about blockchain always being replaceable with a traditional single node central database conveniently leaves out the constraint for decentralized control. Yes, if you change the ideal goals for the solution, of course you can propose the traditional solution. (E.g. a government central database of property re…

But do you need decentralization to distribute benefits cards to the disabled?

The point is that many of the proposed uses don't actually benefit from decentralization in any meaningful way, so you might as well save a pile of headaches and use a standard database.

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#23

Big data: they nailed it! Every single application of 'big data' i ever saw was hype-driven, and much easier solved by boring, traditional things that were there in K&R era already: hash maps, Berkeley DB, and memory-mapped files. Sometimes taking 100x less resources, like literally doing on a single computer what took a huge Hadoop cluster. Maybe on a Google scale of data, that doesn't work as easily. Maybe when you…

Shut your mouth--I can't keep charging $250/hr. unless people BELIEVE!

But seriously, I just came off a project last year that used Hadoop "because" and for no other discernible reason. I personally did a ton of studying on Data Science and then...crickets. Couldn't find anyone who really wanted that kind of work done. Maybe in time.

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#24
post #12

Author provides 2 examples: (1) blockchain and (2) big data Hadoop map reduce (1) blockchain: most arguments about blockchain always being replaceable with a traditional single node central database conveniently leaves out the constraint for decentralized control. Yes, if you change the ideal goals for the solution, of course you can propose the traditional solution. (E.g. a government central database of property re…

His complaint isn't against the Blockchain or Hadoop, but against the people proposing their use for its own sake, without concern about whether it actually provides benefits. He specifically says that virtual currencies themselves are a valid reason to use the Blockchain.

>His complaint isn't against the Blockchain or Hadoop, but [...] whether it actually provides benefits.

For his blockchain example, I couldn't find his Dutch handicap parking story via Google for more details so I don't know if a traditional central database would solve the same exact problem.

I'm saying that virtually all dismissals of a blockchain in favor of central databases almost always removes the benefits of decentralization. The ironic part is that the skeptics don't realize that the central db "solution" is incomplete when compared to all the decentralized goals (e.g. multiple witnesses guarding against tampering, potentially lower cost ownership verification, etc). Yes, if one changes the rules or moves the goal posts around, one can replace a decentralized blockchain with MySQL. If somebody is the skeptic, does he even notice that he performed that sleight-of-hand in his argument?!?

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#25
I think the author has an interesting direction but don't quite like the examples..

Taking a step back and looking at it more generally I see this as problem solving vs problem finding (in Alan Kay's words), where a perfect example would be the hype with self driving cars and high speed car tunnels. This is problem solving (traffic jams, car accidents, "I need to get there faster"). Whereas problem finding will ask the bigger questions that will lead to better results. In the question of transportation I think you should set up yourself to the problem "How do we build car free cities?"

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#26

Big data: they nailed it! Every single application of 'big data' i ever saw was hype-driven, and much easier solved by boring, traditional things that were there in K&R era already: hash maps, Berkeley DB, and memory-mapped files. Sometimes taking 100x less resources, like literally doing on a single computer what took a huge Hadoop cluster. Maybe on a Google scale of data, that doesn't work as easily. Maybe when you…

Shut your mouth--I can't keep charging $250/hr. unless people BELIEVE! But seriously, I just came off a project last year that used Hadoop "because" and for no other discernible reason. I personally did a ton of studying on Data Science and then...crickets. Couldn't find anyone who really wanted that kind of work done. Maybe in time.

I'd be curious if anyone else has had the same experience re: Data Science.

From what I've seen so far it seems like the super big tech companies pay _all the money_ for ML/DS people; outside of that the pickings seem to get slim quick.

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His complaint isn't against the Blockchain or Hadoop, but against the people proposing their use for its own sake, without concern about whether it actually provides benefits. He specifically says that virtual currencies themselves are a valid reason to use the Blockchain.

>His complaint isn't against the Blockchain or Hadoop, but [...] whether it actually provides benefits. For his blockchain example, I couldn't find his Dutch handicap parking story via Google for more details so I don't know if a traditional central database would solve the same exact problem . I'm saying that virtually all dismissals of a blockchain in favor of central databases almost always removes the benefits of…

I think you're still missing the point. I understood that the author was criticizing the mindset of the companies which "want to use blockchain". In those cases, "moving the goal posts" is actually the sensible thing to do, when said companies are looking into the blockchain without understanding if they are actually going to benefit from the core blockchain benefit of decentralization.

There should be nothing wrong in moving the goal posts, when the original goal seems to be the wrong one.

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#28
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about blockchains. Are you talking about Bitcoin? blockchain != Bitcoin blockchain != Ethereum

Reasons other blockchains won't exhibit the same behavior as the two most used ones? None.

Reasons N+1 th implementation wont exhibit the same behavior as the N most used ones ?

How is that none ?

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#29
post #14
post #12

Author provides 2 examples: (1) blockchain and (2) big data Hadoop map reduce (1) blockchain: most arguments about blockchain always being replaceable with a traditional single node central database conveniently leaves out the constraint for decentralized control. Yes, if you change the ideal goals for the solution, of course you can propose the traditional solution. (E.g. a government central database of property re…

Blockchain isn't decentralized. The network is run by a handful of companies, mainly in China.

Even if every chinese miner decided to collude and generate invalid blocks the result would be those blocks being rejected by the standard bitcoin nodes in favor of any valid blocks. Having a majority of hashing power does give them power but it definitely doesn't give them control over bitcoin.

Mining is centralized but bitcoin consensus is decentralized.

Re: Stop tech-driven problem-solving

#30
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>His complaint isn't against the Blockchain or Hadoop, but [...] whether it actually provides benefits. For his blockchain example, I couldn't find his Dutch handicap parking story via Google for more details so I don't know if a traditional central database would solve the same exact problem . I'm saying that virtually all dismissals of a blockchain in favor of central databases almost always removes the benefits of…

I think you're still missing the point. I understood that the author was criticizing the mindset of the companies which "want to use blockchain". In those cases, "moving the goal posts" is actually the sensible thing to do, when said companies are looking into the blockchain without understanding if they are actually going to benefit from the core blockchain benefit of decentralization. There should be nothing wrong…

Yup. Most of the goalpost-moving happens to make "decentralization" the goal in the first place, so elaborate solutions can be devised to eliminate the need to trust partners not to falsify their record of the contract, despite the fact that in many real world situations if they can't trust their partners that far, there's no way they should be giving them access to property, resources or cash in the first place.
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