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Crown shyness

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Re: Crown shyness

#21

Post by thomasfoster96 »

Mz wrote: post #12
roceasta wrote: post #7

>Plants are able to sense the proximity of neighbors by sensing backscattered far-red (FR) Plants can see ? I had no idea.

They also can "scream" by giving off a pulse (that humans can't hear) when attacked and can "talk" to each other by giving off chemicals when attacked by insects, thereby warning neighboring relatives to start creating protective chemicals to defend themselves.

> They also can "scream" by giving off a pulse (that humans can't hear) when attacked...

Do you have a source for the ‘scream’ phenomenon?

I am aware of (and was myself misled by) several pop-science books which confusingly tried to compare plants giving off chemicals when attacked with animals screaming. The result was that a skim read would have given one the impression that plants could make sounds inaudible to humans, which was not what was meant.

Re: Crown shyness

#22

Post by ocb »

Mz wrote: post #14
wybiral wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never again feel safe in the woods.

I stopped obsessing about the supposed morality of eating meat after I learned these things. Just because you can't hear your veggies scream doesn't mean they aren't suffering. (There are lots of really good reasons to limit meat consumption. But, the touchy-feely appeal to "think about the suffering of the animals" is species-ist (for lack of a better word).)

This is getting very off topic, but I think that's a terrible basis for disregarding the ethical argument against eating meat. Why is it "species-ist" to think that mammals and other animals with highly developed nervous systems might have a conscious experience similar to our own (and not plants)?

Re: Crown shyness

#23

Post by andirk »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Perhaps somebody else here listens to the Slate politics podcast, where John Dickerson this week spent 4 minutes describing this phenomenon.

or Slate politics podcast reads Hacker News via the future, steals their thunder

Re: Crown shyness

#25

Post by zone411 »

donatj wrote: post #18

This is super interesting. This is the kind of thing I enjoy on HN most, oddly.

You might want to check out "The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate" by Peter Wohlleben. It's an enjoyable book that covers similar topics, also available as an audiobook.

Re: Crown shyness

#26

Post by joaomacp »

ocb wrote: post #22
Mz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped obsessing about the supposed morality of eating meat after I learned these things. Just because you can't hear your veggies scream doesn't mean they aren't suffering. (There are lots of really good reasons to limit meat consumption. But, the touchy-feely appeal to "think about the suffering of the animals" is species-ist (for lack of a better word).)

This is getting very off topic, but I think that's a terrible basis for disregarding the ethical argument against eating meat. Why is it "species-ist" to think that mammals and other animals with highly developed nervous systems might have a conscious experience similar to our own (and not plants)?

MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW

Oh sorry my cat just wanted to comment on this. Hope it doesn't get downvoted for not being relevant, because he has a 'conscious experience similar to our own'...

Re: Crown shyness

#27

Post by harryjo »

Mz wrote: post #14
wybiral wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never again feel safe in the woods.

I stopped obsessing about the supposed morality of eating meat after I learned these things. Just because you can't hear your veggies scream doesn't mean they aren't suffering. (There are lots of really good reasons to limit meat consumption. But, the touchy-feely appeal to "think about the suffering of the animals" is species-ist (for lack of a better word).)

The same argument leads a rational person to stop obsessing about the supposed morality of killing humans. The touchy-feely appeal to "think about the suffering of the _humans_" is likewise species-ist

Re: Crown shyness

#28

Post by Houshalter »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Perhaps somebody else here listens to the Slate politics podcast, where John Dickerson this week spent 4 minutes describing this phenomenon.

There was a bunch of popular posts about it on reddit yesterday. I would bet that is probably the most direct source of this post. Perhaps the podcast inspired the original reddit posters.

Re: Crown shyness

#29

Post by yorwba »

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #21
Mz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also can "scream" by giving off a pulse (that humans can't hear) when attacked and can "talk" to each other by giving off chemicals when attacked by insects, thereby warning neighboring relatives to start creating protective chemicals to defend themselves.

> They also can "scream" by giving off a pulse (that humans can't hear) when attacked... Do you have a source for the ‘scream’ phenomenon? I am aware of (and was myself misled by) several pop-science books which confusingly tried to compare plants giving off chemicals when attacked with animals screaming. The result was that a skim read would have given one the impression that plants could make sounds inaudible to hu…

Trees who suffer from drought apparently give off ultrasound when their dried cells are destroyed, but it seems to attract pests who then finish off the tree: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Pop+chirp+bite+crunch+chew%3a...

Re: Crown shyness

#30

Post by thomasfoster96 »

yorwba wrote: post #29
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also can "scream" by giving off a pulse (that humans can't hear) when attacked... Do you have a source for the ‘scream’ phenomenon? I am aware of (and was myself misled by) several pop-science books which confusingly tried to compare plants giving off chemicals when attacked with animals screaming. The result was that a skim read would have given one the impression that plants could make sounds inaudible to hu…

Trees who suffer from drought apparently give off ultrasound when their dried cells are destroyed, but it seems to attract pests who then finish off the tree: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Pop+chirp+bite+crunch+chew%3a...

But that's the sound of the tree decaying/dying, not communicating as the GP seemed to imply.
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