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Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

economist.com

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Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#21

Post by Broken_Hippo »

lightedman wrote: post #8

As if ICEs are going to be replaced for emergency power generation any time soon. And with new tech coming out where regular gasoline engines can be as efficient as diesels (in fact using the Diesel cycle to a degree) if not more, you're going to find a resurgence of them in hybrid-electric vehicles. I doubt you're going to be rolling around with a solar-powered weed-eater to do your yardwork. I can guarantee you are…

"I doubt you're going to be rolling around with a solar-powered weed-eater to do your yardwork"

They already have electric weed-eaters. I can easily imagine those engines having a battery, complete with a solar powered charger, likely with an option for direct power. If your house power is solar as well, it still works.

I don't think this stuff is hard to imagine.

Large earth movers are a different beast, simply because of the heavy load. I predict these will be much further off. But so long as they have enough power, I don't see the issue with them being electric at some point.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#23

Post by melling »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #2

Anytime you make something cheaper, easier to use, more useful and/or more efficient you get an increase in usage. Autonomous electric cars are all 4, and will lead to a dramatic increase in the number of miles driven. Some of those miles we can imagine (for instance sending your car on a dead-head journey somewhere for somebody else to use it), but most of the increase will probably be from new usage models that we…

I don’t think they’re cheaper yet.

I’m not sure but I believe the batteries are still too expensive. Also, we might need solid state batteries before we have acceptable range and charging speed for many people.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/253065-toyota-wants-leap...

Finally, the US federal subsidy, Norway’s subsidy, etc have helped the recent models. However, the US subsidy will disappear for Tesla, for example, shortly after they reach the 200,000 car limit.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#24

Post by greedo »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #16
falcolas wrote: post #7

For most of the time, I'd be totally cool with an electric vehicle (this has changed in recent years as ranges and cold-weather performance has improved dramatically). However, that time when I'm traveling off the "grid" would be an absolute nightmare. For example - taking a vacation up in the mountains. No power, limited direct sunlight for solar, and your car is your lifeline. Or cross-country travel that isn't on…

I dont' think it'll be so bad. Sure, you might not be able to do that at first as we won't have the infrastructure and accessories built for it. But we will. Folks enjoy such things. I can imagine being told: Now, as part of your trailer, you have extra energy storage, perhaps some solar capacity to refill the trailer batteries, possibly using the movement of the vehicle itself too. Trailer too much? You also have th…

A wind turbine that works as you drive? Nonsense on stilts...

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#25

Post by toomuchtodo »

ghaff wrote: post #19
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not banning, but charging higher tolls for empty cars than cars that have a load or person in them. Econ 101!

It may be Econ 101 but a lot of people (aka voters) tend not to like fee schemes that make it blindingly obvious that the wealthy are effectively allowed to use public infrastructure in ways that they are not.

We already subsidize roads over public transportation so the subsidies to the wealthy are already there. We're just attempting to internalize externalities of a resource with physical limits.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#26

Post by TeMPOraL »

comicjk wrote: post #10
seibelj wrote: post #6

You don't realize it until you focus on it, but walking around a city, even a relatively clean one like Boston, how much of the air is full of exhaust. City busses that don't run on natural gas spew huge amounts of black smoke, it's disgusting. I can't wait until electric cars take over, the air is going to be so much cleaner, even in dense urban environments.

Getting rid of combustion in urban areas is one of the biggest public health wins available, on the same scale as famous past examples like banning leaded gasoline. The only reason we haven't already done it is lack of alternatives.

We have electric cars now, and we had plenty of ways to make public transport electric in the past without significantly reducing its flexibility - this makes me think it's not about lack of alternatives, but something else. My first suspicion is that fossil fuel transportation is still cheaper. Hopefully this will change soon.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#27

Post by twblalock »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #2

Anytime you make something cheaper, easier to use, more useful and/or more efficient you get an increase in usage. Autonomous electric cars are all 4, and will lead to a dramatic increase in the number of miles driven. Some of those miles we can imagine (for instance sending your car on a dead-head journey somewhere for somebody else to use it), but most of the increase will probably be from new usage models that we…

I worry that self-driving cars are going to be used as an excuse not to expand public transit, especially in the Bay Area. The problem is scale -- once the population reaches a certain size, the roads are going to be gridlocked even if every car is self driving. I'm not sure if the Bay Area is at that point yet, but NYC certainly is, as are most of the major cities of the world.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#28

Post by jartelt »

seibelj wrote: post #6

You don't realize it until you focus on it, but walking around a city, even a relatively clean one like Boston, how much of the air is full of exhaust. City busses that don't run on natural gas spew huge amounts of black smoke, it's disgusting. I can't wait until electric cars take over, the air is going to be so much cleaner, even in dense urban environments.

Plus the noise! It can be hard to have a conversation with someone next to you while walking down a busy street. Switching to EVs will really help make cities quieter as well.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#29

Post by poopchute »

falcolas wrote: post #7

For most of the time, I'd be totally cool with an electric vehicle (this has changed in recent years as ranges and cold-weather performance has improved dramatically). However, that time when I'm traveling off the "grid" would be an absolute nightmare. For example - taking a vacation up in the mountains. No power, limited direct sunlight for solar, and your car is your lifeline. Or cross-country travel that isn't on…

I think about it the same way as owning a boat. If you go fishing every weekend then by all means buy a boat. If you only go once a year for a weekend then just rent a boat. Same principal can be used for longer than 650 km drives

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#30

Post by twblalock »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not banning, but charging higher tolls for empty cars than cars that have a load or person in them. Econ 101!

I wonder if we could start charging tolls proportional to the spot congestion at any given time.

A lot of toll roads/HOV lanes already do that. They increase the price based on demand so traffic in the lane is always moving.
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