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Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

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Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#21

Post by dmoy »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #10
Alexx wrote: post #4

The most striking thing about visiting the southern industrial cities for me was how (especially towards the outskirts) they tend to build the exact same residential skyscraper several times next to each other. You just don't really see that in Western cities so much.

These are part of the same apartment complexes, which are like gated planned communities in the states, except with apartment buildings rather than houses. In Beijing, most housing outside of the 3rd ring is like that...heck, even inside the 3rd ring, you'll see a lot of communities, just with lower height buildings because they were built much earlier.

Not just beijing, but other big northern cities as well. Hell even "small" cities. River fronts along songhua on all the cities around there have >>30 story apartment complexes with like 5-20 identical buildings each. One of them uses giant lights to make a sort of pixelated movie screen at night, which only passably works cus the buildings are all the same and run by the same complex.

Very much not just a southern thing.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#22

Post by kuschku »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #12
redleggedfrog wrote: post #2

"...internet access and freedom is curtailed: popular sites like Google, Facebook and YouTube are not accessible." That line caught my attention for two things. One, it intimates internet access is related to freedom, which I think has merit. And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them.

> And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.

The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly.

This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#23

Post by jackcarter »

psyc wrote: post #19
jackcarter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blueprint was Corbusier's "Radiant City" proposal [0]. It took hold in the US in the form of lower-income housing projects. It turns out that it combines the worst of city life (anonymous neighbors, no personal outdoor space) with the worst of suburban life (unused common areas, lots of wasted space). [0]: http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city...

I wonder if the apartment-dwellers around central park are similarly despondent about their worst-of-all-worlds habitat.

Different for three reasons:

-Central Park is a desirable place to spend time, unlike the artificial, pseudopublic spaces that separate highrise complexes.

-Population density is _much_ higher in those neighborhoods than you get with multi-building highrise complexes.

-There are shops nearby that, along with the park, provide a reason for people to spend time there throughout the day. People don't like spending time in deserted plazas.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#25

Post by dionidium »

maxsilver wrote: post #13
jackcarter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blueprint was Corbusier's "Radiant City" proposal [0]. It took hold in the US in the form of lower-income housing projects. It turns out that it combines the worst of city life (anonymous neighbors, no personal outdoor space) with the worst of suburban life (unused common areas, lots of wasted space). [0]: http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city...

I don't understand these criticisms. As an American, I think our cities would be vastly improved if we copied this form of housing for lots of people, instead of just low-income housing. (In my city, the low-income-only housing is usually the highest quality housing across the city, and is far nicer than anything a mid-income person is allowed to purchase). The current alternative that US prefers is far worse, in my…

The research on this tells a pretty dismal story. They seem like they should be better, but people almost universally report preferring the slums that were torn down to build them.

Communities that grow organically look messy and gross. And there's a certain personality type that wants to come in and fix the mess.

But it just doesn't turn out to work that way.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#26

Post by dionidium »

psyc wrote: post #19
jackcarter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blueprint was Corbusier's "Radiant City" proposal [0]. It took hold in the US in the form of lower-income housing projects. It turns out that it combines the worst of city life (anonymous neighbors, no personal outdoor space) with the worst of suburban life (unused common areas, lots of wasted space). [0]: http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city...

I wonder if the apartment-dwellers around central park are similarly despondent about their worst-of-all-worlds habitat.

What Corbusier-inspired developments around Central Park are you referring to? Surely you don't just mean that they are apartments near a big park?

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#27

Post by skewart »

jackcarter wrote: post #23
psyc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the apartment-dwellers around central park are similarly despondent about their worst-of-all-worlds habitat.

Different for three reasons: -Central Park is a desirable place to spend time, unlike the artificial, pseudopublic spaces that separate highrise complexes. -Population density is _much_ higher in those neighborhoods than you get with multi-building highrise complexes. -There are shops nearby that, along with the park, provide a reason for people to spend time there throughout the day. People don't like spending time…

> Central Park is a desirable place to spend time, unlike the artificial, pseudopublic spaces that separate highrise complexes.

Have you ever lived in a high-rise surrounded by open space? A lot of people, myself included, really like it.

You're stating your own personal preference as if it were some universal fact.

You also seem to have a limited understanding of housing design. For example, lots of Corbusier-inspired high-rise developments have shops and restaurants mixed in among the parks and buildings.

I suspect the bulk of the complaints people have with high-rise housing projects for low-income residents in the US are driven more by the policies and operations of low-income housing - lack of maintenance, poor security, etc. The design model has worked out quite well for higher income residents in plenty of places - even in the US, for example, near south Florida beaches.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#28

Post by skewart »

psyc wrote: post #18
Alexx wrote: post #4

The most striking thing about visiting the southern industrial cities for me was how (especially towards the outskirts) they tend to build the exact same residential skyscraper several times next to each other. You just don't really see that in Western cities so much.

Does anybody else find it hilarious that not one, but two comments present suburbia as the eminent example of cheap rubber-stamp housing in the US?

Honest question, why is that hilarious?

There is a huge amount of cheap, cookie-cutter housing in American suburbia. In fact, I suspect a large majority of single family suburban houses built in the last 50 years are rubber stamp clones from homebuilder planbooks.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#29

Post by Nomentatus »

psyc wrote: post #18
Alexx wrote: post #4

The most striking thing about visiting the southern industrial cities for me was how (especially towards the outskirts) they tend to build the exact same residential skyscraper several times next to each other. You just don't really see that in Western cities so much.

Does anybody else find it hilarious that not one, but two comments present suburbia as the eminent example of cheap rubber-stamp housing in the US?

See the very old song "Little Boxes" by Malvina Reynolds, also famously covered by folk singer Pete Seeger. I loved it back in 1960, when I was a kid revolted by the sameness of the suburbs.

Re: Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

#30

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kuschku wrote: post #22
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.

The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly. This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.

I disagree. I trust Larry and Sergei more than I trust Xi and Li.
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