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Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

danielmiessler.com

21–30 of 64 posts

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the vast majority of people will not be accepting donations because they aren't content creators. If a content creator puts $10 in per month, he could quickly get much more back if a hundred non-content creators each give $1.

AFAIK 'donate' buttons have never proved successful. People don't like paying for stuff they can have for free

[deleted]

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK 'donate' buttons have never proved successful. People don't like paying for stuff they can have for free

It depends on how you define 'successful.' Most people have the metric wrong, which would be conversions. The correct metric is, "Do I make enough to pay for the effort and time doing this?"

replying to ugh and steveklabnik: I guess I'm a cynic but I can't see people just sticking a meaningful amount of dosh in this every month for no marginal gain. Museums have tried similar methods with voluntary contributions instead of entrance fees it doesn't work. Now if they were to get a mention as a valued internet patron on flattr or on the sites they give to then maybe

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#23

I'm really all about Flattr. I wrote a blog post about it when it was announced. Big wins, as far as I'm concerned: * By being subscription based, it's 'set it and forget it.' * By introducing an upper limit, I don't have to worry about overspending my budget. * Flattr's model appeals to me: if I upvote fewer things, they mean more. Sounds about right. * One click donations are so much easier than trying to find and…

This could help a few bloggers get off social welfare (Adsense).

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is wrong. 25 cent micro transactions? Right. The reason MP's failed is not because MP are a bad idea, but because the implementation wasn't realistic. Flattr solves several problems, and does it realistically, and elegantly.

Flattr creates a system where neither the giver nor the receiver knows how large a donation is until next month. That's not really a solution and it certainly isn't elegant.

I agree with you that these aren't micropayments in the strictest sense. But your argument seems to be along the lines that apples are a poor dietary choice because they're not oranges. A content creator gets paid something (likely in variable quantity comparable to a micropayment) with very little thought required on the part of the payor: What's not to like here?

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#25
I know I am oversimplifying this and it could be my inherent cheapness speaking but whenever I hear about a service where I need to pay someone to give other people my money, I back away slowly and then run. So perhaps I'm not targeted user, but I do think that if there are people who would use this, we'd probably seem more thought, time, and effort go into blog posts if people felt that they would receive something more tangible than a nice comment.

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#26

I'm really all about Flattr. I wrote a blog post about it when it was announced. Big wins, as far as I'm concerned: * By being subscription based, it's 'set it and forget it.' * By introducing an upper limit, I don't have to worry about overspending my budget. * Flattr's model appeals to me: if I upvote fewer things, they mean more. Sounds about right. * One click donations are so much easier than trying to find and…

what's the incentive to set it up in the first place if you're not a content creator? Non content creators will mentally file it in their 'something virtuous to do when I have enough money' aka never_never. The content creators who end up being net donors will stop because their motivation was to make money not give it. This scheme and the optimism surrounding it sounds like a throwback to the internet bubble.

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#27
I think Flattr (or something like it) has the potential to create a competitive economic system for digital goods. Traditionally, if you produce something of value, people will pay for it, and the content creator is rewarded. That model doesn't work well for digital goods, since they're nonrival (if you have an mp3, I can have it as well, with no loss to you) and nonexcludable (you can't stop people having the good, because you can't stop people copying bits).

Right now, digital content producers often have to support themselves with advertising, which is usually problematic or impossible. Advertising is kind of like a shitty version of Flattr where you automatically click the Flattr button by simply loading the page, and the amount each person donates per month is the average amount per capita that companies profit due to online advertising. It's a stupid system for a lot of reasons. The one thing it has going for it is that people take part whether they want to or not, by viewing pages and being affected by advertising.

Flattr might make creating digital goods a profitable activity -- and that's a critical to having an efficient economic system.

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is wrong. 25 cent micro transactions? Right. The reason MP's failed is not because MP are a bad idea, but because the implementation wasn't realistic. Flattr solves several problems, and does it realistically, and elegantly.

Flattr creates a system where neither the giver nor the receiver knows how large a donation is until next month. That's not really a solution and it certainly isn't elegant.

If you depend on it to pay your rent, you're going to need lots of people to click those buttons - and when lots of people do it you care less about how much each one gives and more about the averages. Flattr should publish "average pay per click" statistics, I suppose.

And I do think that it's an elegant solution that reduces the number of actions required to contribute to things you enjoy to a single click.

[edited to add]

Another way to think about it is that the variable is not the percentage of visitors that are willing to pay X dollars for your content, instead it's the average payment of the visitors that are willing to pay anything for you content.

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#29

I think Flattr (or something like it) has the potential to create a competitive economic system for digital goods. Traditionally, if you produce something of value, people will pay for it, and the content creator is rewarded. That model doesn't work well for digital goods, since they're nonrival (if you have an mp3, I can have it as well, with no loss to you) and nonexcludable (you can't stop people having the good,…

"Traditionally, if you produce something of value, people will pay for it" but if there's better value elsewhere that's where they'll go. In this case the best value of all is FREE ie no flattr account.

Re: Flattr, and Why It's Brilliant

#30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK 'donate' buttons have never proved successful. People don't like paying for stuff they can have for free

This is not a donate button. Donate buttons are complicated and require you to make all those decisions. With Flattr you have to decide once how much you would like to give per month and that’s that. One decisions and you can click away. It’s hassle free. I don’t think we know why people don’t like donate buttons and your hypothesis (“People don't like paying for stuff they can have for free.”) might be wrong. Maybe…

I agree. Existing donate buttons are cumbersome and discourage the shift in perception that's needed. I think Flattr's on the right track but the subscription model at its base is still overly cumbersome and inflexible. They've indicated they have more flexible and radical models in mind. Hope they pursue them.
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