Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 684 posts

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#21

Post by AnthonyMouse »

alkonaut wrote: post #10

Why can't the memo be both sexist and science? Arguing that there are differences between genders that make one gender unsuitable for a task can be as scientific as you want, it's still sexist. It's no different from doing the same but replacing gender with race - it's racist no matter how carefully and scientifically you worded it. It's almost as if the person writing this article believes that if the manifesto is f…

> Why can't the memo be both sexist and science? Arguing that there are differences between genders that make one gender unsuitable for a task can be as scientific as you want, it's still sexist.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/

Definition by motives vs. definition by belief.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#22

Post by kuschku »

jamesrcole wrote: post #15

What disturbs me most about this incident is how many people's first instinct, when faced with views they strongly disagree with, is to try and suppress those views and the person speaking them. Not to engage with the argument or to try and argue against it, just to shut the other person down. It's a totalitarian kind of response.

It's the natural reaction after getting attacked by right-nationalist /pol/ trolls for years.

You can't discuss with the trolls, you can't argue with them, you can only shut them down.

Naturally, if someone honestly makes the same argument that the trolls copied, the reaction is also the same.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#23

Post by danpalmer »

EJTH wrote: post #3

I fail to understand how a memo calling for MORE diversity can get headlined as "anti-diversity memo" on all big media outlets. Do journalists even do independent research anymore or are they just regurgitating whatever reuters send their way without scrutiny? Debate me instead of downvoting please. Downvoting is like forfeiting a discussion and shows that you question your own narrative.

As far as I could tell from the coverage (I couldn't get past the first few paragraphs of the memo), it asks for more diversity in terms of right-wing/conservative thinking, and for Google to stop encouraging women to apply.

On the surface – that's asking for both more and less diversity, however Google rejects the idea that conservative views (that are compatible with Google's HR policies) are discouraged, which would suggest there isn't more diversity needed there.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#24

Post by blub »

alkonaut wrote: post #10

Why can't the memo be both sexist and science? Arguing that there are differences between genders that make one gender unsuitable for a task can be as scientific as you want, it's still sexist. It's no different from doing the same but replacing gender with race - it's racist no matter how carefully and scientifically you worded it. It's almost as if the person writing this article believes that if the manifesto is f…

Sexism relates to prejudices, discrimination. It's a negative word.

And no one argued that an entire gender is unqualified for a task. Where do you come up with all this stuff?!?

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#25

Post by wyclif »

UK-AL wrote: post #5

Please don't flag the article if you simply disagree. The key to changing minds is understanding the other side. Not shutting them out of the conversation.

I submitted this article an hour and a half before this duplicate submission, and it got flagged to oblivion. Telling. But I'm glad to see it's back now.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#26

Post by abhi3 »

UK-AL wrote: post #5

Please don't flag the article if you simply disagree. The key to changing minds is understanding the other side. Not shutting them out of the conversation.

I flagged it. How many times do we need to have the same repetitive discussion? This topic is crowding out other quality submissions.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#27

Post by megous »

kuschku wrote: post #13

This article would be a lot more worthy of a discussion if it actually discussed the actual issues. How much is nature vs. nurture? (many of the behaviours the manifesto attributed to genetics are actually purely environmental) Should that even matter? Shouldn't hiring processes be purely meritocratic? The fact that the author of the memo argued for affirmative action for hiring more conservatives shows that he doesn…

It's a memo, not a scientific study. Goal is to point out issues for discussion.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#28

Post by and0 »

UK-AL wrote: post #12
return0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like these don't belong to a corporate forum like HN

This issue effects the entirety of technology sector which this forum represents a large group. Simply trying to deny the debate is not how you work things out. If anything that will just annoy the group more so.

I meant to respond to the response someone else made:

It's not a debate to be won. Some people just keep insisting it is with this cloying, sweaty desperation. It's embarrassing, and it's awful that these Silicon Valley ghouls have so much power that we have to consider them at all.

I read the article, it didn't have any real science and made a bunch of insane, half-baked assumptions. The guy is a dumbass and deserved to be fired.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#29

Post by [deleted] »

UK-AL wrote: post #12
return0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like these don't belong to a corporate forum like HN

This issue effects the entirety of technology sector which this forum represents a large group. Simply trying to deny the debate is not how you work things out. If anything that will just annoy the group more so.

[deleted]

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#30

Post by wyclif »

abhi3 wrote: post #26
UK-AL wrote: post #5

Please don't flag the article if you simply disagree. The key to changing minds is understanding the other side. Not shutting them out of the conversation.

I flagged it. How many times do we need to have the same repetitive discussion? This topic is crowding out other quality submissions.

Stop flagging articles you don't agree with that discuss science. It's not how HN is supposed to work.

According to the HN guidelines, flagging is for spam or off-topic submissions. This is neither.

Post reply on HN