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More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#21

Post by jsnell »

humanrebar wrote: post #11
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

There was an Atlantic piece about this specific thing that hit the HN front page. It was flagged as a dupe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14967440

And correctly so, since the exact same article already was on the front page with 400 points a day earlier:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14959601

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#22

Post by [deleted] »

trentnix wrote: post #9
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

The narrative must be maintained, comrade!

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#23

Post by arien »

webvictim wrote: post #3
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #2

How is Google handling pay? Is there a level system with fixed pay levels? Or can anyone negotiate his salary - in limits - when starting his job?

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-salary-ranges-of-each-lev... https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm It seems similar to the way it was at Facebook in that when you start, you'll be assigned a level based on your previous experience and it'll be corrected soon afterwards if it turns out to have been wrong. They mostly corrected up, though - it was very rare for someone to be assigned a high leve…

The ranges are wide to give room for salary negotiations at the beginning of employment, but also to allow for salary raises for people who are not yet considered to be at a higher level. E.g. you could be a junior developer, but a very good junior, who deserves a pay rise because of performance, engagement or whatever, but still a junior technically.

If you get quite far into your own salary range but never get promoted (if that's how the company works), it's time for some reflection on the situation, for both yourself and the company. Note that the ranges can also overlap between job levels, in some cases.

P.S. Not talking about Google specifically.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#24

Post by b_ttercup »

cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

"One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least?"

Are you suggesting the fact that women did not speak up before indicates that there is nothing worth speaking up about now?

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#25

Post by aaron-lebo »

josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

It was widely condemned.

The document has been inaccurately labeled (I've seen a Slate op-ed making statements that are blatantly false) , but the people who are acting like it is some kind of academic work have apparently never done academic work.

The guy took a few academic sources and mixed in stuff from the New York Post. It's not well sourced. What people do see is an academic study linked and say "see, this is scientific", but most people aren't trained to read that literature so it's just psuedo-scientific garble.

Why is the tech world turning itself upside down for a mediocre undergrad paper?

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#26

Post by [deleted] »

trentnix wrote: post #9
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

The narrative must be maintained, comrade!

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#27

Post by needlessly2 »

anon12345690 wrote: post #16
needlessly2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

What if person A asks for a raise but person B doesnt? Salaries are negotiations.

and why would men at Google ask for raises while women at Google would not?

Obviously, both groups have competitive skills in the industry. I'm sure you will bring up the studies that men are more likely to negotiate. However, that applies for a more general population who work at middle tier roles at middle tier companies. People who work at Google have more bargaining power than the general population.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#28

Post by mbel »

doktrin wrote: post #20
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

>> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate > Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? Maybe I'm being pedantic, but the document was widely condemned as being both of those things. Reporting that those condemnations occurred (they did) isn't an implicit validation of said condemnations.

> Reporting that those condemnations occurred (they did) isn't an implicit validation of those condemnations.

Of course it isn't a validation per se, but repeating those ideas gives them some gravity and makes them believable in the eyes of the reader.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#29

Post by boona »

dragonwriter wrote: post #17
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

> Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? Reading the memo is irrelevant to the fact claim you quoted, which is about the response to the memo, not about it's content. (It's also completely accurate; the memo has been widely condemned on the basis stated.)

The memo was also widely praised, so at best you could say that it's controversial.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#30

Post by [deleted] »

cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

[deleted]
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