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Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

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Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#21

Post by quotemstr »

prepend wrote: post #6

I don't think it's safe to comment on these types of articles online. These comments are stored and indexed forever and whatever we say could be used against us at some point in the future. You may think you are reasonably debating or discussing something, but you have to consider that someone in the next 50 years may review your post history and use it against you. Theoretically, we would need to make throwaway acco…

This effect is accelerating. After a certain point, everyone will have so much dirt to dig up that a few out-of-context comments from years past won't prejudice anyone much at all. In fact, the absence of dirt might become a little suspicious.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#22

Post by RealityNow »

quotemstr wrote: post #21
prepend wrote: post #6

I don't think it's safe to comment on these types of articles online. These comments are stored and indexed forever and whatever we say could be used against us at some point in the future. You may think you are reasonably debating or discussing something, but you have to consider that someone in the next 50 years may review your post history and use it against you. Theoretically, we would need to make throwaway acco…

This effect is accelerating. After a certain point, everyone will have so much dirt to dig up that a few out-of-context comments from years past won't prejudice anyone much at all. In fact, the absence of dirt might become a little suspicious.

Right. And just look at Trump. He adamantly denied Obama's U.S. citizenship, joked about grabbing women by the genitals, made fun of a war vet for being captured, mocked a disabled person, etc. His wife has nude pictures. They're president and first lady. People are fed up with political correctness, and the bubble is starting to burst.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#23

Post by taysic »

RealityNow wrote: post #20
taysic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They appear completely related to what is heresy to discuss at Google. The section starts off with "Some takeaways from this whole fiasco" "Here are some of those politically correct assertions that take on almost religious-like qualities..." And thus appear to be completely linked to the topic of the Google "fiasco". Very confusing way to present the article if they are not relevant. College is a very different plac…

Apologies if the presentation was unclear, will see if I can make that clearer. > Additionally, a workplace works best without the friction of being a place for the discussion of politics or controversial topics. Let alone "innocuous" jokes. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I prefer workplaces, or any environment for that matter, where we all respect each other enough to be open to the discussion of any…

The author was fired but I certainly wouldn't describe the reason as due to "any little thing they say". Most of the time people are fired for harassment, which can be nuanced but a normal company compliance training can get one up to speed.

The author was probably fired for going through the wrong channel to voice this. Now not only has he attacked his company but he also alienated his female coworkers who may feel he finds them potentially undeserving of their jobs or in excess supply, as implied by the article.

Sounds wonderful for the work environment, no? At the end of the day, Google is a company out to make money and build good culture in their company.

I respect your desire to surround yourself by those who aren't easily offended or too PC and I trust you will find many friends like that. However, that isn't really appropriate for the workplace where it's not your right to be treated well for any behavior.

Its an interesting topic to discuss but personally I think progress is with diversity. Not just for society but it benefits companies as well. I think they are seeing that and ultimately they are allowed to do what they wish.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#24

Post by UncleMeat »

RealityNow wrote: post #17
taysic wrote: post #8

According to the article some of the things that will "and will get you socially lambasted" "Any statement that perpetuates female stereotypes is sexist, even an innocuous joke (or even a misconstrued joke in someone else’s private conversation)" "Prostitution is sexist against women" etc Um wtf? No these are not appropriate in a work environment. If you want to have a place with meaningful controversial discussion t…

That was simply a list of topics that PC culture has deemed indisputable and heresy to even question. The topic of whether or not they're appropriate in a work environment is a whole different discussion. The Google memo was pertaining to their own company's diversity policy, and hence should be fair game for discussion. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, then the Obama quote at the bottom of the article summarize…

There is considerable controversy among social justice groups about how best to approach sex work. It is absolutely not verboten to suggest that sex work can be empowering rather than oppressive. Controversial, but certainly not forbidden.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#25

Post by chrisco255 »

taysic wrote: post #14
KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I enjoy about working in tech is having the opportunity to discuss things other than work during breaks. We often spend more waking hours with our colleagues than our friends and family, forming strong bonds and friendships. I've been lucky enough to work with intelligent people originating from many parts of the world, and have enjoyed stimulating discussions that include geo-political and social issues. W…

I hear you. That sounds very nice, but a work environment can simply never be the same as hanging out with a friend over lunch. There needs to be some way to discourage harassment and promote a positive, friendly work environment that values people for their skill set rather than other given irrelevant attributes. Free discussion is just not appropriate at a work place - the line must be drawn somewhere and usually t…

Professionalism itself is an evolving standard and a moving target. It varies wildly between companies, industries, cultures, and even regions within the United States. Professionalism used to mean 9-6PM M-F work with suit and tie or formal dress and strong hierarchical organizations. In some industries it still means that. The startup tech industry was sort of founded on a rebellious disregard for old standards of professionalism with flatter hierarchies.

At a company like Google, it appears that discussion on internal forums is actually an internal cultural virtue. Google's innovation and evolution as a company has probably depended on that very openness that we the general public are getting a peek into through these leaks.

An article I read on Wired showed images of these discussions. Apparently very progressive viewpoints are welcomed on the internal channels there. It would seem that any viewpoints that run counter to that worldview, however, are gradually being eradicated by shaming and firing those with alternative views.

What's unfortunate is that with the actions that have been taken...I think everyone loses. Fuel has only been added to this fire on both sides.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#26

Post by mindfulplay »

I don't understand this stupidity - the original dude who wrote this thing.

A company is not a place to air out your public opinion internally and expect no consequences. This is not the National Monument. This is not your open Mike night in your comedy club. This is not where you scream and run and then cry first amendment first amendment.

This is a place of work. Actual women work with this dude. Imagine how they would feel. Imagine the potential number of people he interviewed that were women or minorities.

Nobody's telling this sad dude what to do outside of work. He could very well go and participate in all far right movements as he pleases.

But to espouse a stupid thing as 'women are less capable' and expect NOT to be fired seems like he was playing with fire by first setting things on fire.

And let's not get started on 'did you ACTUALLY read his memo? He didn't say that on page 4 line 43' like this is some Tolstoy level philosophical meta writing. This is mediocre crap written by a dude looking for a reason to get offended and throw shit around - someone who I think probably landed on the wrong side of Reddit or 4chan often times.

Sorry. The most serious crime I think is his ingenious creativity that made the CEO and many well-respected people to actually read his crap. If I only had that talent, I would become a professional performance artist and quit software engineering.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#27

Post by funnyguys »

mindfulplay wrote: post #26

I don't understand this stupidity - the original dude who wrote this thing. A company is not a place to air out your public opinion internally and expect no consequences. This is not the National Monument. This is not your open Mike night in your comedy club. This is not where you scream and run and then cry first amendment first amendment. This is a place of work. Actual women work with this dude. Imagine how they w…

This exactly - it was mediocre crap. When you insinuate that some of your co-workers have certain drawbacks because of their gender, it makes that gender more aware of their behaviour and they are put in a position where they to take extra effort to prove otherwise. This is creating hostile environment for them. This is the reason why similar forms of generalisation, like racism, is frowned upon – not just because of innate sense of right or wrong. If this is being politically correct, then damn right I am politically correct.

This reminds me of the movie Gattaca - let us start deciding the traits of people based on the gender, race and blood samples and assign jobs based on that.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#28

Post by funnyguys »

RealityNow wrote: post #17
taysic wrote: post #8

According to the article some of the things that will "and will get you socially lambasted" "Any statement that perpetuates female stereotypes is sexist, even an innocuous joke (or even a misconstrued joke in someone else’s private conversation)" "Prostitution is sexist against women" etc Um wtf? No these are not appropriate in a work environment. If you want to have a place with meaningful controversial discussion t…

That was simply a list of topics that PC culture has deemed indisputable and heresy to even question. The topic of whether or not they're appropriate in a work environment is a whole different discussion. The Google memo was pertaining to their own company's diversity policy, and hence should be fair game for discussion. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, then the Obama quote at the bottom of the article summarize…

This is not just PC assertions. Generalizing characteristics of people based on their gender is harmful and exactly the reason racism is frowned upon.

If biological reasons can determine if a person is fit for a particular job, let us start deciding the traits of people based on the gender, race and blood samples and assign jobs based on that. If you haven't, please watch the movie Gattaca.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#29

Post by funnyguys »

RealityNow wrote: post #16
prepend wrote: post #6

I don't think it's safe to comment on these types of articles online. These comments are stored and indexed forever and whatever we say could be used against us at some point in the future. You may think you are reasonably debating or discussing something, but you have to consider that someone in the next 50 years may review your post history and use it against you. Theoretically, we would need to make throwaway acco…

That's essentially the problem that the article is trying to bring attention to - our culture of intellectual hostility. The only way this will ever change is if people stop caving in to political correctness. I realize it's a prisoner's dilemma in that individually it's in nobody's best interest to speak out, but that's an incredibly selfish mindset. We need to start valuing integrity and doing the right thing. It w…

This is not the same thing, is it? From reading the comments in most forums, looks like people seems to at least partially support the contents of the memo and the guy for writing this. Also, he is not speaking out in support of the minority, he is insinuating that they may be biological not suited for the job.

If only we could decide the characteristics and job of a person based on the person's birth, race and other things totally out of a person's control, society would be so much better.

Re: Google’s Testament to Political Correctness

#30

Post by beaconstudios »

RealityNow wrote: post #18
beaconstudios wrote: post #3

Of all the things the author mentions as being propped up by political correctness, this: > Capitalism is the best economic system sticks out like a sore thumb. I thought progressivism was more of a market socialism type affair? A disproportionate number of diversity quota advocates are open socialists or communists.

Open communists? Interesting, I've never met any of those. Perhaps Silicon Valley and California are a lot different in that regards to NYC, where declaring yourself a communist is sacrilege.

well I don't know the situation on the ground so well as I'm in the UK, but certainly online most of the PC types I've spoken to are avowed socialists (as in proper socialism, not the Republican definition) and a few are communists. Looking at the on-the-ground anti-free-speech protests that have become so iconic of the movement you'll see a lot of anarcho-communist symbology and tactics like the black bloc.
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