Just another symptom of the oversupply of Talent in this industry.
Nail on the head. Cut H1b admission in half and older software engineers will be in demand again.
Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
21–26 of 26 posts
Re: Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
#22We hear it over and over again and I understand the reluctance to address it (it can be scary to step out from the crowd) but when is an organization with clout, such as YC, going to take a stand on this issue? Until an organization has the desire and courage to step out from the crowd and fund ideas/startups, without regard to age but, on the strength of the idea and the team, then this issue will forever be in the…
> If the answer is they would, why is everyone ignoring this issue? Nobody is ignoring it. It's just if you haven't moved up the tech/management/etc ladder by your late 30s/40s, there just isn't a place for you in silicon valley/tech startup scene. I started at a startup when I was 20. All the devs were in their 20s. Our founder was 29. During milestone/release/go-live times, we'd work 20 hours a day and sleep at our…
You understand that the vast majority of jobs in Silicon Valley are not start ups. Google, Apple, Facebook -- these aren't start ups, and people aren't working 20 hour days there.
Moreover it's just not the case that someone can be productive for 20 hours a day for any extended period of time. Maybe you can do that for a few days, max, but then your productivity plummets and you'd be better off working 8 hours. This notion that 20 year olds have amazing concentration ability, rather than just poor time management, is believed only by 20 somethings with poor time management skills.
Re: Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the answer is they would, why is everyone ignoring this issue? Nobody is ignoring it. It's just if you haven't moved up the tech/management/etc ladder by your late 30s/40s, there just isn't a place for you in silicon valley/tech startup scene. I started at a startup when I was 20. All the devs were in their 20s. Our founder was 29. During milestone/release/go-live times, we'd work 20 hours a day and sleep at our…
You understand that the vast majority of jobs in Silicon Valley are not start ups. Google, Apple, Facebook -- these aren't start ups, and people aren't working 20 hour days there. Moreover it's just not the case that someone can be productive for 20 hours a day for any extended period of time. Maybe you can do that for a few days, max, but then your productivity plummets and you'd be better off working 8 hours. This…
> You understand that the vast majority of jobs in Silicon Valley are not start ups. Google, Apple, Facebook -- these aren't start ups, and people aren't working 20 hour days there.
The guy I responded to was talking about startups and VC funding, so that's why I focused on startups.
> Moreover it's just not the case that someone can be productive for 20 hours a day for any extended period of time. Maybe you can do that for a few days, max, but then your productivity plummets and you'd be better off working 8 hours.
Sure. But when you have deliverables and are time constrained, you just don't have much choice. The client has expectations and we had to work extra hard to meet them. 20 hour workdays are definitely not viable over the long term.
> This notion that 20 year olds have amazing concentration ability, rather than just poor time management, is believed only by 20 somethings with poor time management skills.
I mostly talked about stamina, energy, quicker to learn, etc. Not sure about concentration ability, but I do tend to think younger people with a passion are better at concentrating and focusing on something. Also, I'm no longer a 20 something. Sadly, I'm one of those heading to 40s rather quickly.
I didn't mean to upset people. I was just talking from experience and trying to explain why VC money goes to younger founders and why startups prefer younger devs.
That formula isn't going to change until older founders and older devs start creating googles, facebooks, apples, microsofts, etc.
It isn't a bias against older people since almost all of the VC investors are older people in their 40s, 50s, etc. It's a matter of what demographic has delivered the 1000000% returns.
It isn't set in stone. Money will go where money is made. Especially in a high risk, high reward environment like the startup sector.
Believe me, as someone who is older now, I would like nothing more than to see things change. Being viewed as over-the-hill when you turn 30 is a difficult pill to swallow.
Re: Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
You understand that the vast majority of jobs in Silicon Valley are not start ups. Google, Apple, Facebook -- these aren't start ups, and people aren't working 20 hour days there. Moreover it's just not the case that someone can be productive for 20 hours a day for any extended period of time. Maybe you can do that for a few days, max, but then your productivity plummets and you'd be better off working 8 hours. This…
> You understand that the vast majority of jobs in Silicon Valley are not start ups. Google, Apple, Facebook -- these aren't start ups, and people aren't working 20 hour days there. The guy I responded to was talking about startups and VC funding, so that's why I focused on startups. > Moreover it's just not the case that someone can be productive for 20 hours a day for any extended period of time. Maybe you can do t…
But again, the article was about discrimination in the valley, and the parent was also referring to sv, although they again identified sv as a start up scene when it's really not.
Sure, start ups discriminate against older workers, against women, against blacks, etc. Hell, I've seen them discriminate against people with different musical tastes. Start ups, by definition, are small businesses and we tolerate/have lower standards for small businesses than large corporations. That's why you have restaurants that only hire family members, for example.
Fortunately start ups are kind of irrelevant in terms of total developer employment in the valley. There just aren't that many start ups and they don't survive that long, so they don't account for most employment. They do capture the imagination of the valley, so whenever someone brings up age discrimination in the valley, the come back is always "well, in a start up.."
>That formula isn't going to change until older founders and older devs start creating googles, facebooks, apples, microsofts, etc.
Intel was started by Robert Noyce when he was 41. Gordon Moore was 40. Geschke and Warnock were 45 and 42 when they founded Adobe. Cisco and AMD were founded by 30 somethings. Huang was 39 when he founded NVIDIA. Interestingly in China, Jack Ma was 35 when he founded Ali Baba -- would he have been able to raise capital in SV today?
None of the original companies in SV were founded by someone in their 20s. It just didn't happen. The idea that only 20 somethings can start companies is very new, and whether or not it's a good idea, it's not the case that workers in their 30s and 40s need to "prove" that they are able to found big companies, as we are all living in the shadows of great tech companies founded by people in this age bracket.
Re: Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the answer is they would, why is everyone ignoring this issue? Nobody is ignoring it. It's just if you haven't moved up the tech/management/etc ladder by your late 30s/40s, there just isn't a place for you in silicon valley/tech startup scene. I started at a startup when I was 20. All the devs were in their 20s. Our founder was 29. During milestone/release/go-live times, we'd work 20 hours a day and sleep at our…
Davidreiss, I want to address some of your points and then will drop the topic as it is clear that we are going to have to agree to disagree on many points. Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative or abrasive, just trying to push back or give some food for thought. >if you haven't moved up in tech/management/etc ladder by your late 30s/40s, there just isn't a place for you in SV/tech startup scene>…
> Over the last 8 weeks leading up to defense we still worked our normal FT employment and completed revision and defending our individual dissertations while averaging 5-7 hours of sleep a week.
Cool story bro, but utter bullshit. People who do that die, they don't have the mental capacity to defend a dissertation. Eight weeks at 1 hr/night is not something humans can do.
Re: Ageism is forcing many to look outside Silicon Valley
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Davidreiss, I want to address some of your points and then will drop the topic as it is clear that we are going to have to agree to disagree on many points. Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative or abrasive, just trying to push back or give some food for thought. >if you haven't moved up in tech/management/etc ladder by your late 30s/40s, there just isn't a place for you in SV/tech startup scene>…
> Over the last 8 weeks leading up to defense we still worked our normal FT employment and completed revision and defending our individual dissertations while averaging 5-7 hours of sleep a week. Cool story bro, but utter bullshit. People who do that die, they don't have the mental capacity to defend a dissertation. Eight weeks at 1 hr/night is not something humans can do.
You are correct as I meant to say we averaged 5-7 hours the last week. And yes you can live on very little sleep when you have a sleeping disorder and take Adderall XR, Adderall and Provigil for said disorder. On average I sleep no more than 3-4 hrs a night; however every month to 6 weeks I will sleep 14-16 hrs straight but have to come off meds for a few days in order to allow sleep issues to prevail. I have had bizarre sleeping patterns since I was a kid and have been taking meds since I was 16.