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NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

thehill.com

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Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#21

Post by sunsetMurk »

1024core wrote: post #16

Since when did the NSA become the copyright industry's police? There were no security implications of Kim's operation; why was he targeted by the NSA?

(Un)Fortunately they have the tools that others want to use, so other agencies request info & access. Very similar to how the FBI manages a database of faces for facial recognition [1] and your local LEO can query w/o a warrant or probable cause [2].

1. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/smile-youre-in-t... 2. ...I'll try to find the link but recently watched a YouTube video of a government hearing on this where the senator or congressman was very unhappy about this situation.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#22

Post by striking »

aptidude187 wrote: post #15
Fifer82 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy. MegaUpload was a huge warez distributor around the same time as RapidShare. File Hosters over HTTP

So why are rapidgator and uploaded or any other upload services getting off the hook

From what I recall, MegaUpload was accused of not only providing incentives for uploading files, but also ignoring the fact that some files were very obviously pirate content.

This page seems to have more information about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_Megaupload#Indictme...

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#25

Post by baybal2 »

sunsetMurk wrote: post #21
1024core wrote: post #16

Since when did the NSA become the copyright industry's police? There were no security implications of Kim's operation; why was he targeted by the NSA?

(Un)Fortunately they have the tools that others want to use, so other agencies request info & access. Very similar to how the FBI manages a database of faces for facial recognition [1] and your local LEO can query w/o a warrant or probable cause [2]. 1. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/smile-youre-in-t... 2. ...I'll try to find the link but recently watched a YouTube video of a government hearing on this w…

>(Un)Fortunately they have the tools that others want to use, so other agencies request info & access.

The bigger thing there is the fact that a kind of well orchestrated "operation" took place is now proven, disclosed, and fully admitted by NZ officials. The info disclosed gives a lot of background on how US NSA solicits "favors" from other states and on what pretexts

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#26

Post by philip1209 »

1024core wrote: post #16

Since when did the NSA become the copyright industry's police? There were no security implications of Kim's operation; why was he targeted by the NSA?

I'm more interested in how much corporate espionage and counter-espionage they do. If a foreign company steals/hacks domestic IP and that hurts the US economy, I wouldn't be surprised if they took action. So, if we can agree that this type of action is reasonable by the NSA, then I could see them justifying the surveillance of Kim Dotcom under industrial counter-surveillance.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#27

Post by dgfgfdagasdfgfa »

philip1209 wrote: post #23

Putting aside the target of the surveillance - Yes, the NSA is a spy agency. It's their job to spy outside the country. And of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country endorses being spied on by foreign governments.

> And of course the spying is illegal outside of the country - no country endorses being spied on by foreign governments.

Isn't this exactly what the Five Eyes surveillance agreement is? It certainly seems extremely relevant and may also explain why the NSA's surveillance here was possible.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#28

Post by toufka »

gozur88 wrote: post #11
turc1656 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I was wondering the entire time reading the link what exactly was illegal since it is fairly common knowledge that all nations spy on each other and in the US it is totally legal for the US government to spy on foreigners who are not on their soil.

It's a confusing headline. What the NSA does is probably illegal in every country but the US, but the implication is it's illegal in the US. It's probable they do things that are illegal under US law, but I doubt this is one of them.

The concept of legality gets awkward when talking about the military force of a nation, but even in the United States there are limits to what the military (NSA, DOD, etc.) are authorized to do. Though the matter at hand could be framed as a matter of 'economic security' to the US, it is unclear that such an argument is sound. And if that argument is not sound, the consequences that stem from the US military being involved in the domestic law enforcement of another state against their will are not desirable to the US from a policy perspective.

Though NSA's actions may or may not be illegal in the US, there are other standards used to judge or analyze military action in the global economic marketplace.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#29

Post by syshum »

koolba wrote: post #4
gozur88 wrote: post #3

Unlawful in New Zealand. I'd be surprised if what they did wasn't legal under US law.

Short of political assassination, is anything done by the US government outside the US illegal under US law?

It should be, the US Constitution should apply to government actions ANYWHERE not just actions on US Soil, the US Constitution was never designed to be geographically limited, it was designed to limit what the government was allowed to do, period, in all cases in all lands, everywhere

Sadly the US Court Systems has stated it does not have the authority to apply the Constitution to the US Government when the US Government is acting outside US Soil, it is a ridiculous standard but....

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#30

Post by erentz »

gozur88 wrote: post #3

Unlawful in New Zealand. I'd be surprised if what they did wasn't legal under US law.

I think it's probably legal given he is a foreign national on foreign soil. (I'm not sure if there is anything in the laws that empower the NSA that limits their scope for what matters they investigate on, if so, they may have violated that. If not, there probably should be.)

A fairer question might be, why is the mission of the NSA to enforce copyright law for media companies? Shouldn't they be busy trying to hunt down terrorists, prevent attacks against the USA and it's people abroad, things like that?

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