We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#21

Post by nathancahill » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

mlinksva wrote: post #8

I wish the interview was a bit more substantial, but I like the exercise should be free/gyms are bad (exaggeration mine) idea. Gyms are like skyways (eg in Minneapolis), or like mass transit stations surrounded by parking: they detract from the vibrancy of street life and subvert their purpose.

Outdoor gyms have really taken off in Latin America (it's my understanding that they originally became popular in China).

The social aspect is great. Quite often, they are in the center of parks and green space downtown. People hang out around them and work out together.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#22

Post by freshhawk » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

I thought the barefoot/minimal part was not the focus of what we are doing wrong (I only run in Vibrams, it's plainly much better but you have to start incredibly slow and work up to it).

His point about what we're doing wrong was treating it as a speed based sport or a chore to do to be healthy, with a bunch of gadgets to mediate the experience, when it should be a relaxing, fun meditative practice where you disconnect from everyday stresses. I find that to be a very good point and I'm surprised people didn't find it clear. It explains the treadmill hate as well.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#23

Post by will_brown » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

Another recently published running book is about "The Raven" a streak runner running 8 miles everyday for over 42 years. 125,000 miles; 5x around the earth; to the moon and back.

I'm lucky enough to live in Miami and run with him sometimes. When he started the streak he went barefoot and later began wearing shoes, if you can call them that, his favorite are NB with about 2,500 miles on them that seem to have more hole(s) than material left.

If you can, do a run with the Raven and get a nickname, if not please get his book:

https://www.amazon.com/Running-Raven-Amazing-Community-Inspi...

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#24

Post by WalterSear » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

e12e wrote: post #17

WalterSear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

Do you have some more information on this? Are you talking about running on paved road, or in (rough) terrain? I admit I have some difficulty visualizing how you combine landing on the ball of your foot with pushing off with the heel (so I at least agree that it doesn't feel natural :-).

I'm definitely no expert, I'm afraid. Perhaps others can chime in. But notice how, in this gif, the maximum force is applied just as the heel starts to lift:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif

I think it's hard to imagine in part because it involves such a radical shift in the center of gravity, bringing the body over the knee, so the foot can act as a springy lever, minimizing the impact of your heel on the ground.

http://www.barefootbruce.com/images/100_Barefoot_Biomechanic...

It's also something I found >literallydo< pick it up. Such a more efficient, and less painful way to run.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#25

Post by rosser » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

freshhawk wrote: post #22

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

I thought the barefoot/minimal part was not the focus of what we are doing wrong (I only run in Vibrams, it's plainly much better but you have to start incredibly slow and work up to it). His point about what we're doing wrong was treating it as a speed based sport or a chore to do to be healthy, with a bunch of gadgets to mediate the experience, when it should be a relaxing, fun meditative practice where you disconn…

I'll own having missed that as well, or at least overlooking it in my having read the "wrong" as being about the how, and not the why.

I think the gadgets and accessories can be helpful, but absolutely: they're not the point. They, and the speed-sport or health-chore nature he decries aren't relevant to why I run (ran), so I paid them less mind.

Thanks for the perspective!

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#26

Post by icantdrive55 » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:27 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #11

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

I kinda get the "evolution-barefoot" hypothesis.

That said, we weren't designed to run on concrete?

When I was younger, I ran toes-to heel, in the 80's. I just thought it made the most sense. I had an accident where I shaved all the skin off my Achilles' tendon. I also shaved off 1/4 of my Achilles' tendon. That ended my running style, along with 20 lbs of fat.

Now my sister was just running around a baseball diamond when her achilles tendon snapped. She told me she was mimicking my running style. She just heard a pop, and felt no pain until she got up.

My point is I don't know if they have definitively figured out the best running footware, or even technique. I will say this, gaining weight was the worst thing I ever did for my runnng. Just a few pounds, really ended my running.

(On a plus, when I walk now, I'm carrying around a sack of potatoes. I still get that running high. I do need to walk up hills though. )

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#27

Post by djrogers » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #20

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

> The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong The way I understood it is that it's wrong for it to be considered a "sport" rather than a "meditation", that is, it should be less about competition and more about relaxation.

That makes the reference to evolutionary origins even more confusing, as I doubt our ancestors were ‘meditating’ while running prey to ground. If it is truly a survival thing, then running under stress inducing circumstances (hunger, competition, forced exercise etc) would be more in line with what Gorg the cave man was doing...

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#28

Post by darioush » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

jackmott wrote: post #13

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thing I did for my running was to buy a pair of Vibram Five-Fingers shoes. The single most important thing I've done for my running, is run more and lose weight. This is a universal thing. Everyone who gets good gets good via more running and losing weight. Running more c…

I'd like to add: if things aren't going well for you running more may not be the answer.

Source: I learned all about my terrible running form that kept sending me back to physical therapy by a doctor who actually bothered to look at me running and cared enough about the biomechanics to tell me what I was doing wrong.

Just like math and science (or arts or music) doesn't come naturally to everyone, the same is being connected with and in control of the muscles in your body. If you've spent the bulk of your adolescent and adult life in a chair (like I did), chances are your core muscles and stabilizers are weak and you won't be utilizing them correctly just by running more.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#29

Post by raverbashing » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

You can still run touching the front of the foot and with the knee bent while running shoes, though it's true "barefoot" running forces you to do it in that way

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#30

Post by Jugurtha » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

I stumbled on a documentary: "The Tarahumara - A Hidden Tribe of Superathletes Born to Run"[0] that goes specifically into that.

Basically, these people run 400 miles or something bare feet.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnwIKZhrdt4