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Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

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Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#21

Post by curyous »

hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

FYI, a network with 1000x more on-chain transactions, that everyone uses, is much more difficult to censor, than one that requires bank-like organisation with IOUs to the main chain.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#22

Post by vertex-four »

curyous wrote: post #21
hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

FYI, a network with 1000x more on-chain transactions, that everyone uses, is much more difficult to censor, than one that requires bank-like organisation with IOUs to the main chain.

I am unaware of any current proposal which requires putting in place a bank-like organisation. If you're talking about Lightning Network: routing things across a network without requiring a central controller is a very well-studied field.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#23

Post by mhluongo »

vertex-four wrote: post #22
curyous wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, a network with 1000x more on-chain transactions, that everyone uses, is much more difficult to censor, than one that requires bank-like organisation with IOUs to the main chain.

I am unaware of any current proposal which requires putting in place a bank-like organisation. If you're talking about Lightning Network: routing things across a network without requiring a central controller is a very well-studied field.

Lightning's network topology is still up in the air. Saying "routing is well studied" is well and good, but from what I've read doing it with payment channels without devolving to hub and spoke isn't trivial.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#24

Post by empath75 »

hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

Once there are multiple viable forks of Bitcoin proper, the idea that bitcoins are rare assets worth investing in will collapse.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#25

Post by hudon »

curyous wrote: post #21
hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

FYI, a network with 1000x more on-chain transactions, that everyone uses, is much more difficult to censor, than one that requires bank-like organisation with IOUs to the main chain.

Two problems with your argument:

1- You imply that only one camp wants to scale. Actually, both camps want to scale. The only difference is that the "big blocks" camp do not think a user's ability to validate the blockchain is worth keeping.

2- The size of the network is irrelevant to the government's ability to censor transactions. The only thing that stops them from having power over the network is decentralization. If you as a user have no say whatsoever in what goes into blocks, you are forfeiting your power and handing it over to the miners. Then, the miners become transaction validators that can be compelled to censor certain kinds of transactions by their government. As a user, you will have no means to stop this because you can't even validate the chain they are producing (because it costs you too much to transmit, store and validate it in computing resources).

I'm not saying the argument for the "not-big-blocks" camp is to never increase the block size, but it is to try everything they can to keep the power in the user's hands while growing the network. The minute you give up on decentralization for the purpose of scale, Bitcoin loses its value proposition as it looks less like digital cash and more like paypal with central transaction validators and a central database.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#26

Post by bdcravens »

empath75 wrote: post #24
hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

Once there are multiple viable forks of Bitcoin proper, the idea that bitcoins are rare assets worth investing in will collapse.

Aren't most alts a fork of a fork? How many of them have truly original codebases? (obviously operative word in your comment was "viable", but at a minimum, Litecoin is one viable fork)

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#28

Post by vertex-four »

mhluongo wrote: post #23
vertex-four wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am unaware of any current proposal which requires putting in place a bank-like organisation. If you're talking about Lightning Network: routing things across a network without requiring a central controller is a very well-studied field.

Lightning's network topology is still up in the air. Saying "routing is well studied" is well and good, but from what I've read doing it with payment channels without devolving to hub and spoke isn't trivial.

I would argue that that is mostly because cryptocurrency developers are mostly incapable of reading CS papers, but that's neither here nor there.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#29

Post by DougN7 »

hudon wrote: post #20

A fork like Bitcoin Cash will be a boon for the blockchain community. There is a pretty big subset of the community that believe Bitcoin is a panacea that will replace currencies, payment networks and so on, regardless of how technically inferior the blockchain is to other more mature distributed databases and networks. They believe one day, the blockchain will be just as efficient or even more so. This subset is voc…

Thank you for your explanation. This is the best description of WHY there is such a battle going on that lay people like me can grok :)

Re: Bitcoin Cash Starts Trading

#30

Post by encryptThrow32 »

The dangers of tx replay mean that HF's like this can never be safe. Beware those that would tell you that these forks are safe, they are not. This is another scam from those that would try to usurp the blockchain.

You will be able to replay original bitcoin and abc tx's on each chain, unless you opt-in to some funny new untesed hash. This will hugely disrupt the minority chain ABC, as the mempools on cash chain fill with other valid tx's from main chain. Its going to be a bloodbath. Steer very clear!

From: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/56867/bitcoin-ca...

Bitcoin Cash (aka Bitcoin ABC aka UAHF) provides two methods of replay protection, both of which are opt in. If you do not create transactions which use these features, then your transactions are vulnerable to replay.

The first method is a redefined sighashing algorithm which is basically the same as the one specified by BIP 143. This sighash algorithm is only used when the sighash flag has bit 6 set. These transactions would be invalid on the non-UAHF chain as the different sighashing algorithm will result in invalid transactions. This means that in order to use this, you will need to transact on the UAHF chain first and then on the non-UAHF chain second.

The second method uses an OP_RETURN output which has the exact string:

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System as the data of the OP_RETURN. Any transaction which contains this string will be considered invalid by UAHF nodes until block 530,000. This means that prior to block 530,000, you can split your coins by transacting on the non-UAHF chain first with the OP_RETURN output, and then transacting on the UAHF chain second.

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