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Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

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Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#21

Post by Analemma_ »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #3

Good. Here's how things should go: 1. First America stops being world police. 2. America plays ball with rest of world (adopts metric system, becomes a leader in climate, shares control of internet, turns concern toward to real issues like asteroids, population growth, health issues, cyber security) 3. Citizens acknowledge that war is a tool for siphoning tax money into the coffers of people with connections/governme…

You do realize that a bunch of our present political instability is because quite a lot of people viscerally hate and fear 4 and 5, and are voting for politicians who promise to block them, yes?

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#22

Post by djohnston »

castis wrote: post #11
djohnston wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are asteroids a real issue?

From what we can tell, they've caused mass extinctions before, no reason to believe they won't again.

i believe that i just don't think the timeline is short enough for it to matter. afaik there is no impending asteroid disaster within the next 1000 years, although there could be hundreds of factors in my ignorance on this matter.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#23

Post by xrange »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #3

Good. Here's how things should go: 1. First America stops being world police. 2. America plays ball with rest of world (adopts metric system, becomes a leader in climate, shares control of internet, turns concern toward to real issues like asteroids, population growth, health issues, cyber security) 3. Citizens acknowledge that war is a tool for siphoning tax money into the coffers of people with connections/governme…

>1. First America stops being world police.

Yes, how do we do this? I'd like to see us declare victory, and remove our troops from South Korea, Japan, Germany, the rest of Europe, the Middle East, and everywhere else. The UK did essentially this over the course of the 20th century. Is there any way to accelerate the process without world wars?

Does anyone have examples of groups working "together" that share one common interest, and are opposed on many other fronts?

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#24

Post by Analemma_ »

mindcrime wrote: post #2

and the authority of governments everywhere is crumbling. Good. potentially undermining trust in incumbent governments for the foreseeable future Even better. Trusting government is a fool's errand. But, the document says, this should not be seen as defeatism, but rather a “wakeup call”. If nothing is done to adapt to this “post-primacy” environment, the complexity and speed of world events will “increasingly defy [D…

And what is your proposed replacement? I've seen a lot of libertarian/ancap complaining about governments, but never any suggestions where the cure isn't worse than the disease.

FFS, look at history. When governments collapse, what springs up is never a wonderful, harmonious, anarchist collective. What actually happens is this: a short period of chaos, followed by the public willfully putting a strongman authoritarian into power when they're sufficiently sick of the instability and just want peace and quiet back. This is a constant pattern throughout history and it is ridiculous to think "this time will be different".

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#25

Post by mindcrime »

madamelic wrote: post #10
mindcrime wrote: post #2

and the authority of governments everywhere is crumbling. Good. potentially undermining trust in incumbent governments for the foreseeable future Even better. Trusting government is a fool's errand. But, the document says, this should not be seen as defeatism, but rather a “wakeup call”. If nothing is done to adapt to this “post-primacy” environment, the complexity and speed of world events will “increasingly defy [D…

I especially enjoy the fact they seem to be deeming their own citizens as enemies. Great job guys!

To governments, their own citizens are the enemy. We are a potential uprising just waiting to happen.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#26

Post by X86BSD »

camillomiller wrote: post #14

One thing I find particularly funny about the whole Trump-Russia connection and the possibility of Putin & Co. meddling with American Elections, is the disconnect of those that are so blindly outraged about it all. Trump of course should resign if the intervention is proven as deliberate and facilitated by his side, but shall we make a list of all the foreign elections the US have been meddling with in the last 50 ye…

What's hillarious to me is watching the liberal snowflake safe space left foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs about a non issue, theoretical maybe, crime like Russia collusion while completely ignoring the fact the US has not just meddled in elections in other countries but overthrown leaders, assassinated people, and destroyed entire countries with force! And are doing right this minute in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc!

I mean it takes a special kind of bat shit crazy to foam at the mouth looking for any dirt you can on an elected president you hate while totally ignoring the smashing, bombing, murdering the US has done to bring about new leaders, better energy deals, access to resources, and political change.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#27

Post by moomin »

Maybe they should consider exactly how badly they used their post-Cold War dominance. Things like the Iraq war leeched their dominance, by showing them as unprepared, by showing them as an occupying power and by splitting them with most of Europe.

It wasn't the only decision that had this effect, either. The report might as well say "We used to be rich, but we spent it all on fast cars and drink."

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#28

Post by nnfy »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #13
mrkrabo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good way of becoming weak. Your enemies will be very glad to watch you try this.

"The Americans have brought their armed forces back home, adopted sensible foreign and domestic policies, and are starting to see eye-to-eye with people whom they once found too foreign to relate to. Now is the perfect time to strike!"

Our global hegemony ensures stability of trade for the entire world, and that stability is the reason that other countries eagerly trade and generally deal business with the US. Unfortunately, if we back away from our role as world police, the resulting power vacuum will see some other country take up the role at best, and at worst we could see another large scale conflict as emerging powers compete for dominance.

Our current foreign policy is far from ideal, but there is a delicate global balance which would be dangerously upset if we ceased global operations and "world policing." The GP is niave to think that such rosy, utopian intentions would not be taken advantage of by other global players. Look, for instance, at the current posturing by China in the Pacific. Imagine the scaling of their operations if there was no one in our position to apply pressure against them.

Someday, sure. But, globally, humans are still viciously tribal, and some form of enforcement keeps everything running smoothly for everyone. And while Americans foot much of the bill, there is no denying that our benefit is of larger proportion as well.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#30

Post by lightbyte »

mindcrime wrote: post #19
sharemywin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then who do you trust no one? computers? corporations? religious leaders? scientists? How do you run society without trust?

Wait, what?? Where did I say anything remotely like "trust no one"? Trusting governments has worked out so well historically though. That got us many wars, untold numbers of people killed, incarcerated and/or experimented on. It got us untold numbers of people inhibited from creating wealth and a better future for themselves, so the existing elite power base could preserve itself. It got us civil asset forfeiture, th…

Are you suggesting any alternate ideas here, or just ranting about "muh gubment"?
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