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Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

theguardian.com

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Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#21

Post by EduardoBautista »

paradite wrote: post #19
86go wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...except threatening Taiwan with war? And ask the people in Tibet and (some) in Hongkong.

As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China. Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?

Let's be honest. China has all the historical motivation to be hostile towards Japan. The only reason why they are not is because it's protected by the USA.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#22

Post by vkou »

323454 wrote: post #18
vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China kills people for speech. The US kills people for being poor and/or black. There's no shortage of cheerleaders for this in either country. I have to note that most people will find it easier to control what they say, than to change their skin colour.

You're being overly selective with the facts. In the US there are problems but there is hope for change through free discourse, independent courts and democratic decision making. In China there are problems but the power to change is invested in officials and bureaucrats with their own interests at heart, and hope for change is hope that such people can be persuaded or bought.

Independent courts that consistently side with the justice system, and have spent centuries enforcing racist laws, that have destroyed communities. Independent police oversight, done by the guy sharing an office with the person he is overseeing. Democratic decision making that makes progress at a generational pace.

That same democratic process, independent court system, and free discourse also built a century of slavery, followed by another century of Jim Crow, followed by half-a-century of... What we have now.

These are valuable political institutions, but they are not sufficient.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#23

Post by paradite »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #21
paradite wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China. Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?

Let's be honest. China has all the historical motivation to be hostile towards Japan. The only reason why they are not is because it's protected by the USA.

Let's not assume everyone likes war, especially Chinese people who lost so much despite winning WW2. China has no interest in starting a war with Japan, with or without USA.

Yes there is historical resentment, but people in our generation are rational, peace-seeking and pragmatic.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#24

Post by ceejayoz »

microcolonel wrote: post #7
vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China kills people for speech. The US kills people for being poor and/or black. There's no shortage of cheerleaders for this in either country. I have to note that most people will find it easier to control what they say, than to change their skin colour.

> The US kills people for being poor and/or black. The United States does not kill people for being poor and black. Poor black people kill poor black people for being poor and black. Overwhelmingly so; ask anyone who keeps or audits vital statistics. You can stand around saying that there is some historical basis for this cultural problem, but telling people that whitey is keeping them down is a sure way not to solve…

> Poor black people kill poor black people for being poor and black.

White people mostly kill white people, for the same reasons - crimes tend to be committed in the perpetrators' own communities. This little dog whistle tidbit of "black-on-black crime" people trot out is mainly an indication of how segregated American society still is.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#25

Post by paradite »

girzel wrote: post #8
phreack wrote: post #2

He may have died of Cancer, but while being denied proper care, serving an 11 year prison sentence for what amounts to an attempt of speech. And its censorship appears to have mostly worked for its intended audience. Truly a sad conclusion.

It's true, hardly anyone inside China is even aware of his existence. That said, I've seen direct references to him (and even photos of him) from activist friends in my WeChat feed, which surprises me a bit. I would have thought the WeChat censors would have been working overtime this week...

I hope by now you have discovered the contradiction between your two paragraphs. People know, they just don't discuss it publicly.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#26

Post by dharmach »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

If China achieves all the ambitions it feels to deserve in the sphere of global wealth/influence, it will start behaving more-or-less similar to USA, unless you think that various human races are inherently different.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#27

Post by wangii »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #21
paradite wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China. Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?

Let's be honest. China has all the historical motivation to be hostile towards Japan. The only reason why they are not is because it's protected by the USA.

yes, China invaded Japan in 1937 and killed at least 20m people, and US allied with Japan fought back Chinese and they happily live together thereafter.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#28

Post by yogenpro »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

Wow China is now comparable to the US? Kudos to their progress!

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#29

Post by 68c12c16 »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.

I feel there is nothing wrong with China or its people in general, just like there is nothing wrong with any other country and their people in general...

The problem is in their government, and their capability and method of controlling the social resources; and more often than not, the government is quite aggressive toward those who disagree with them.

Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody

#30

Post by sgift »

paradite wrote: post #19
86go wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...except threatening Taiwan with war? And ask the people in Tibet and (some) in Hongkong.

As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China. Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?

"Disputed Chinese territory" - by that definition it is easy to invade whoever you want. Just say it's your territory and you are good to go.
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