Somewhat related, perhaps the most spectacular story of a late coder I've ever heard is that of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pruteanu (somewhat controversial Romanian literary critic and politician). Basically, despite having a major in Romanian literature and spending a lifetime as a literary critic, with almost 0 contact with computers, he decided in his late 40s and early 50s to understand the things beh…
How I learned to code in my 30s
21–30 of 208 posts
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#22When I was a kid, my mom was teaching high school, and thought that she might get laid off due to declining school enrollment in the rust belt. She took a year of programming courses at a community college. The next year, they asked her to teach the course, which she did. Most of her students were 30+, many were working in the auto industry, including assembly line workers. At the time, there were a lot of bright peo…
Not that wrong, imho.
> my mom discouraged me from majoring in CS because she literally thought programming was too easy to justify 4 years of classroom training, and she thought that the job market for programmers would quickly saturate.
This part is real wisdom. The best developers I know (and I myself, which I consider an above average programmer) learned how to program by themselves (before, during or after high school time). And it is not uncommon to find people with CS degree unemployed or with difficult to reallocate with the current state of tech, at least here in Brazil.
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#23Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why should that be noteworthy? Because there's perceived ageism in this industry, so saying you're just getting started in your 30's is interesting.
Isn't the same ageism -- true or perceived -- in all industries? Would you be feel comfortable starting med-school in your 30s? A PhD? Training to be a plumber or an architect? If anything, because programming takes a shorter time to become productive (say 2 years), I would think it would attract older job switchers. (edit: Before people give me counter-examples, note:I know these things do happen)
Hmmmm... in a handful of industries I might say yes, but in many others I would say no.
I see an abundance of discrimination against younger in many industries. Either they are looked at as lacking knowledge, experience, or both. Often times this perception is justified, but often it is not. Of course, there is no legal recourse since age discrimination in the US is mostly (always?) for people 40 and older.
That said, the ageism in technology in the Bay Area and a few other areas is peculiar and does not seem to be particularly widespread outside of these regions (at least in the US). This ageism seems to follow a few patterns:
1. People in the capital class working young people hard for low pay... because they can. Most older folks won't put up with it for justifiable reasons. These are often terrible places to work and are often terrible businesses as well.
2. Really smart and creative young people who want to work with similarly-minded people without having to manage a potential or real generation gap. This is probably closer to being justifiable when at a very small scale, but it's still potentially illegal, especially as scale increases. This is the sort of headline discrimination that is seen in the Bay Area -- a 20-something superstar typically doesn't have the "soft skills" necessary to manage someone a decade or two older. Few people at that age do, but this is especially true for folks who spent their younger years developing their non-managerial specialist knowledge.
3. "Culture fit". Some (many?) younger folks in the Bay Area seem to want to extend their college partying years. This means that older and potentially more conservative or parent-like figures are not particularly welcome. I think that this is not uncommon at any favored destination of recent high-achieving college graduates (as well as wannabe high achievers).
If someone in their 30s or 40s wants a job in tech, one easy way is just to get away from the areas that are flooded with high-achieving recent college grads. The areas that are flooded with these types have very real ageism problems. The areas that have few of these folks (most areas) largely don't have ageism problems -- if anything, younger applicants are more likely to be perceived negatively. Admittedly, the latter places are often less cool (i.e., not Bay Area, not NYC, not Austin, etc.), but these places have jobs.
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#25When I was a kid, my mom was teaching high school, and thought that she might get laid off due to declining school enrollment in the rust belt. She took a year of programming courses at a community college. The next year, they asked her to teach the course, which she did. Most of her students were 30+, many were working in the auto industry, including assembly line workers. At the time, there were a lot of bright peo…
> Let's just say we guessed wrong. ;-) Not that wrong, imho. > my mom discouraged me from majoring in CS because she literally thought programming was too easy to justify 4 years of classroom training, and she thought that the job market for programmers would quickly saturate. This part is real wisdom. The best developers I know (and I myself, which I consider an above average programmer) learned how to program by th…
You don't need a CS degree to make a website.
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#26Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#27This is generally a decent article about the balancing non-technical skills, and exerting effort in learning. I found it noteworthy that the "hook" in the title is that the person started in (gasp) their 30s. Why should that be noteworthy? Why wouldn't someone start coding in their 30s, 40s or 50s? Now it is true that starting a new profession late in life may not always make sense because, presumably, you have to li…
Yeah, I think the relevant part is "getting into software/tech in 30s", not learning to code per se which should be non-newsworthy at least through one's 50s. Then again, I changed careers into software in my 30s (had just turned 30 when I left aerospace), though I had coded in some capacity my entire life. Newsworthy?
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#28The "Sorites paradox" is something like: how many grains of sand form a heap? if you remove or add one, is it still a heap?
So, exactly what exactly makes you a programmer? that varies a lot depending on who you ask. Someone said a programmer should be able to detect and report a bug to a hardware manufacturer. Some others say that "learning" (partially, because most programmers don't know every single aspect of a programming language) a general purpose or Turing-complete language makes you a programmer.
I define an "X programmer" where X is backend, frontend, data, whatever... as someone who can not only implement a feature, but do it through understanding rather than through a heuristic of trial and error or reusing code. Also, a person that is able to troubleshoot what is going on if some of the underlying systems is not working as expected.
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#29When I was a kid, my mom was teaching high school, and thought that she might get laid off due to declining school enrollment in the rust belt. She took a year of programming courses at a community college. The next year, they asked her to teach the course, which she did. Most of her students were 30+, many were working in the auto industry, including assembly line workers. At the time, there were a lot of bright peo…
> Let's just say we guessed wrong. ;-) Not that wrong, imho. > my mom discouraged me from majoring in CS because she literally thought programming was too easy to justify 4 years of classroom training, and she thought that the job market for programmers would quickly saturate. This part is real wisdom. The best developers I know (and I myself, which I consider an above average programmer) learned how to program by th…
Building CRUD apps using existing frameworks is coding.
Building said frameworks and the rest of the software that powers those CRUD apps takes more.
I don't mean to rag on simple projects or coding either. It's just as noble as any other profession. But to say that a random Rails or Node developer could write something like Postgres is laughable.
It's not the degree that makes that possible either. There's plenty of idiots who've graduated. It's the difference between studying how to do something and studying abstract concepts. People who have done CS degrees are more likely to have been exposed to the latter.
Re: How I learned to code in my 30s
#30A possibly similar tale is the one being done by some former Kentucky coal miners: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/fossil-fuels/the-...
Here's a longer great Wired article about (I think) the same group of coders https://www.wired.com/2015/11/can-you-teach-a-coal-miner-to-...