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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#21

Post by rocqua »

bluejekyll wrote: post #19
TulliusCicero wrote: post #11

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious. Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities. If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- me…

Bike lanes are a step in that direction. SF is starting to gain more protected bike lanes, it would definitely be nice to have more. The bike lane itself is a great initial way to measure bike interest. Though honestly, nearly every street in the city should have at least a painted bike lane.

Here in the netherlands, cyclist paradise, we don't even have a painted bike lane on nearly every street.

There are also streets where biking isn't allowed. These are mostly major car arteries. It is imperative to realize there are places where cyclists don't belong. Just like it is imperative to realize that in most places in the city, cyclists do belong.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#22

Post by ghaff »

awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

As someone who doesn't take a lot of taxis and related services while traveling, I've wondered about how many rides people take when I would just be inclined to walk. I actually don't bike on roads-wasn't in an environment where I really could growing up-but I usually just walk in many of the cities I travel to even if it's a mile or three.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#23

Post by usrusr »

awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

Please don't design cycle infrastructure for children. Bikes can be toys, but they can also be so much more. Designing for children locks bikes into the toy-role. Do I have to arm myself with a car to be treated like an adult?

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#24

Post by saiya-jin »

rocqua wrote: post #21
bluejekyll wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike lanes are a step in that direction. SF is starting to gain more protected bike lanes, it would definitely be nice to have more. The bike lane itself is a great initial way to measure bike interest. Though honestly, nearly every street in the city should have at least a painted bike lane.

Here in the netherlands, cyclist paradise, we don't even have a painted bike lane on nearly every street. There are also streets where biking isn't allowed. These are mostly major car arteries. It is imperative to realize there are places where cyclists don't belong. Just like it is imperative to realize that in most places in the city, cyclists do belong.

Every single road I ever saw in Netherlands (true, been only in Amsterdam & around for daily cycling) had a corresponding separate bike lane running along with it, in many cases on both sides. Maybe you mean roads only for motorized vehicles (not sure about proper name), usually with multiple lanes? Maybe some roads at the beginning/end of highway?

In many not only European cities this is impossible to build since streets are as narrow as possible, you would have to remove pedestrian paths or tear down many buildings.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#25

Post by Freak_NL »

michaelt wrote: post #16
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

> This means cyclists using the segregated path have to stop to give way to cars at every T junction

That is a very car-centric design. In the Netherlands these kind of junctions within city limits tend to give the bicycle path the right of way. Bicycle lanes are also mandatory when they are provided; this makes everything a lot safer for all parties concerned.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#26

Post by rorykoehler »

michaelt wrote: post #16
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the road. On top of this often the cycling lanes on the edge of main roads also double up as puncture hazards making it risky to use them.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#27

Post by skrebbel »

michaelt wrote: post #16
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

This is solved in the Netherlands, pretty much universally, by making the cars coming in from the side wait for the bike lane as well:

                                        |  C  |
      -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ----  
      Cycles                               r  
      -----------------------------------  s  ---------  
                  divider               |     |
      -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ---------  
      Cars
      -------------------------------------------------
So if there's a bike lane, it counts as part of the car road in terms of right of way, even if it's separated by a divider.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#29

Post by rorykoehler »

kristofferR wrote: post #17
cpursley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just in Lisbon (lovely city). Hills aside, the metro is so good, it seems like a bike is just unnecessary (you have to store a bike, can't easily walk into shops, etc etc).

That's a problem that can be solved easily just by having a good and cheap city bike system. Oslo is also really hilly and the weather isn't the best, but since the city bike system was revamped in 2016 biking has exploded here. https://oslobysykkel.no/en One thing I really like about the Oslo system is how startup-like it is, unlike a lot of other systems which feel arcane. The apps are flawless (there's no card), t…

Cheap bike sharing schemes usually don't have gears. If you've ever been to Lisbon you'll know that will be an issue. Lisbon needs electric assist bike for a bike sharing scheme to work.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#30

Post by rorykoehler »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #9

One of the problems with more bicycle infrastructure I see is the current regulatory environment promotes the extremes only. A nice intermediate step would be if states would make moped registration less onerous. As it stands most states require a motorcycle license ($), insurance ($) and registration ($) for anything more than a bicycle with an engine kit. If more people rode those parking would be less of an issue…

Having been in Taipei where mopeds were illegal until ~20 years ago and then unleashed on the city like a plague I can only hope that if any city were to do this they would add the caveat that the mopeds must be electric.
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