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Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

blog.mozilla.org

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#21
post #15

CJDNS is a self-organising IP address allocation and routing layer. A node's public key acts as its IPv6 address, and routing uses a DHT of those nodes. This style of network has the property that you can take two independent CJDNS networks, link them together, and all nodes are mutually addressable/routable. This is in contrast to The Internet, whose addressing is centralised on IANA. cjdns is moderately active, tho…

How does it incentivized nodes to route packets for others?

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#22
post #7

I think the headline here is misleading. What they are offering is a prize to decentralize the internet - the actual network to which people connect in order to use the web. Judging from the other comments here, I don't think a lot of people have actually read the article. IPFS and blockchain are technologies that are built on top of the internet - they assume a network connection already exists.

I had the same thought that this is some incentive to prevent big players monopolies with stuff like federated social networks or global distributed search engine without owner. Unfortunately it is only about connectivity to the internet, not only the web.

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#23
post #19

It can be done. It has been done, many times, from 1980s amateur packet radio to 2000s WiFi meshes. It's not inherently difficult. The hard problem is doing it with enough bandwidth to support cat videos. Netflix, and bloated web pages. Suppose you had a distributed emergency IP radio network available that could provide 56Kb as long as at least one solar powered node per square kilometer was working. It would delive…

What if nodes were incentivized to route traffic for others via crypto currency, e.g. proof of routing. Maybe then you could get real bandwidth.

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#24
post #19

It can be done. It has been done, many times, from 1980s amateur packet radio to 2000s WiFi meshes. It's not inherently difficult. The hard problem is doing it with enough bandwidth to support cat videos. Netflix, and bloated web pages. Suppose you had a distributed emergency IP radio network available that could provide 56Kb as long as at least one solar powered node per square kilometer was working. It would delive…

"...doing it with enough bandwidth to support cat videos. Netflix, and bloated web pages."

There's the real problem, too many fools using the internet in broken and inefficient ways, me and you included.

If we want to decentralize the web, maybe the point is to abstract the UI display layer to the local application, i.e., site layout templates, forum UI, mail UI, etc. all be standardized with only data flowing over the decentralized net. It's essentially the same thing as existed before with local applications essentially being the terminals of the internet. shit, I can't even think of the various message boards, RSS readers, mail clients, etc that were crucial in the decentralized web of the past.

Look at what we have now, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. all instituting authoritarian and dystopian 1984 like controls on what can be said and who can and cannot be offended and who is punished and censored and controlled for saying unapproved things. That was practically impossible in a decentralized web where free speech and free will and human dignity still existed without the tech elite authoritarians dominating the internet.

It's sad that as write that I start realizing that the intent really isn't at all what it used to be. IT seems Zuckerberg et al. are becoming ever more successful at achieving his goal of replacing the internet. I would not be shocked if today's kids, e.g., between 10-28 had absolutely no idea what the internet means beyond Facebook, amazon, netflix, google, instagram, Uber, etc. The whole system has essentially collapsed upon itself.

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#25
post #15

CJDNS is a self-organising IP address allocation and routing layer. A node's public key acts as its IPv6 address, and routing uses a DHT of those nodes. This style of network has the property that you can take two independent CJDNS networks, link them together, and all nodes are mutually addressable/routable. This is in contrast to The Internet, whose addressing is centralised on IANA. cjdns is moderately active, tho…

CJDNS + IPFS to me is a grand vision for an idealized, completely distributed web. Combine that with some sort of distributed naming system (Namecoin, etc.), and you have a system that requires literally zero central authorities to operate. You just generate your own IPv6 addresses that are derived from a private key you generate yourself, and it works out of the box with all existing applications that support IPv6. No more IP registries (ARIN/APNIC/RIPE/etc), no more BGP. It's a network that can sustain itself by millions of individuals users routing internet traffic by peering directly with other users and datacenters.

As I understand it, there was some way to de-anonymize traffic to a certain extent (which is still far better than the current situation), and that turned off some of the "purists" which is just a shame. From a practical perspective, even with some issues, getting rid of BGP is more than enough of a benefit.

I can't express enough how brilliant CJDNS is to me, it's really a magical idea. Which is not to say there won't be potential issues (even potentially existentially damning issues), but wow. I'd love to see this project move forward and get more attention. It's the first thing I've seen that really made me think about how we could design a better internet than the one we have today.

FWIW, I'm already happy to just nominate the CJDNS project as a potential winner of this prize, already.

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#29
post #7

I think the headline here is misleading. What they are offering is a prize to decentralize the internet - the actual network to which people connect in order to use the web. Judging from the other comments here, I don't think a lot of people have actually read the article. IPFS and blockchain are technologies that are built on top of the internet - they assume a network connection already exists.

So something more similar to the Serval Project?

http://www.servalproject.org/

Re: Mozilla and NSF offer $2M prize to decentralize the web

#30
post #15

CJDNS is a self-organising IP address allocation and routing layer. A node's public key acts as its IPv6 address, and routing uses a DHT of those nodes. This style of network has the property that you can take two independent CJDNS networks, link them together, and all nodes are mutually addressable/routable. This is in contrast to The Internet, whose addressing is centralised on IANA. cjdns is moderately active, tho…

How does it incentivized nodes to route packets for others?

It does not technically. However, peerings are done manually based on trust/friendship, so misbehaving nodes would get unpeered.
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