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Alan Kay on What was it like to be at Xerox PARC when Steve Jobs visited?

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Re: Alan Kay on What was it like to be at Xerox PARC when Steve Jobs visited?

#21
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting is how Kay dismisses Job's objections as being motivated by needing to put someone down. I can as easily see them being constructive usability criticisms: details that the engineers steeped in developing it missed, but concrete things that would stop actual customer adoption.

We weren't "engineers" at Parc, but a combination of many talents (check out the actual histories of the place -- why waste time speculating when there is much you could learn?)

I went with the "engineers" label in response to the "business people" label by parent. I like neither when ascribing intents to actions.

Anyway, I like to give benefit of doubt when attributing intent to people's actions. As evidenced by the responses, seems like I'm off the mark here. Over and out :)

Re: Alan Kay on What was it like to be at Xerox PARC when Steve Jobs visited?

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize that. Thanks for the condescension. But, you realize that people aren't motivated by just one thing, right? Even if they are business people, right? Anyway, knowing what we know about Job's obsession with getting things right (as he saw it), you do think that his sniping at specific look and feel issues was just to put the engineers down? To me, it's a more cohesive picture if I interpret his actions as bei…

Hi -- making up coherent stories is not a good way to find out what is going on. In this case, there is a lot of background information that could help to create a more supported opinion. (Humans can't help having opinions but we should put the unsupported ones in limbo at the very least.)

Speculation based on a coherent story is a short-cut when I am deferring actual research: a back of envelope calculation.

So, you got me: I didn't actually research the events :)

But, where would I start with such research?[0] It seems like articles are written with a specific narrative in mind: either Jobs as genius or Jobs as copy cat.

Is there anything I could look at that's sort of independently verified/agreed upon as being the truth? Does such a thing even exist? I hope it does.

It feels like these events have gone into annals of legend, not history :)

[0] is this reliable? https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/parc.html.

Re: Alan Kay on What was it like to be at Xerox PARC when Steve Jobs visited?

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize that. Thanks for the condescension. But, you realize that people aren't motivated by just one thing, right? Even if they are business people, right? Anyway, knowing what we know about Job's obsession with getting things right (as he saw it), you do think that his sniping at specific look and feel issues was just to put the engineers down? To me, it's a more cohesive picture if I interpret his actions as bei…

Hi -- making up coherent stories is not a good way to find out what is going on. In this case, there is a lot of background information that could help to create a more supported opinion. (Humans can't help having opinions but we should put the unsupported ones in limbo at the very least.)

Misplaced but cannot comment under the original one.

You wrote: "I don't take notes. (It's worth pondering whether taking notes is really an aid to internal remembering...)"

This is fascinating. Somehow, when what is out there is reflected "correctly" in the mind, it stays there in a highly connected way.

Here is an other one that does not take notes and apparently understands things.

"After high school, Scholze continued to pursue this interest in number theory and geometry at the University of Bonn. In his mathematics classes there, he never took notes, recalled Hellmann, who was his classmate. Scholze could understand the course material in real time, Hellmann said. “Not just understand, but really understand on some kind of deep level, so that he also would not forget.”"

and:

"Yet even with the benefit of Scholze’s explanations, perfectoid spaces are hard for other researchers to grasp, Hellmann said. “If you move a little bit away from the path, or the way that he prescribes, then you’re in the middle of the jungle and it’s actually very hard.” But Scholze himself, Hellmann said, “would never lose himself in the jungle, because he’s never trying to fight the jungle. He’s always looking for the overview, for some kind of clear concept.”"

Source: https://www.quantamagazine.org/peter-scholze-and-the-future-...

An other one who described something similar was Alexander Grothendiek in "Récoltes et semailles": (apx traduced from French) "Understanding something is like removing shards from one's eyes." He was known to be completely still when trying to understand/solve something... yet it took him a lot of energy. Understanding something is also understanding how it works, thus simulating it in one's mind. In fact reflecting about something is probably identical to simulating it in one's mind.

Can this be thought in a repeatable way? (or at all?)

Pascal has the perfect excuse for my misplaced and not short enough comment.

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