Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#21

Post by hav » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

tskaiser wrote: post #15

blibble wrote: post #8

I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the problem on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU and a good chunk of the rest of the world http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home

iirc 3 introduced this service when it was announced that these regulations were underway.

Correct. It's difficult to see if that was causation though, as Three had already had "Feel at home" in 2013 when discussions started in the EU about this legislation.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#22

Post by ko27 » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

halloij wrote: post #4

So the cost incurred will be passed on to everyone in higher fees. eg people who never "roam" are going to be subsidising those people that do. A negative move spun as a positive... clever EU, clever.

Wrong. If tourist movement is spread out across Europe equally, then mostly nobody will need to subsidize anything, since the mobile operators will be paying each other. Of course, cost per GB is different in some regions, but interestingly most popular tourist places are on the Mediterranean where data plans cost less.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#23

Post by adders » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

blibble wrote: post #8

I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the problem on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU and a good chunk of the rest of the world http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home

The Three changes came in response to this change in regulations.

As a relatively new operator they have always hated roaming, as it has made them less then the established operators.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#24

Post by JoeCamel » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #14

Yeah, the telcos have already found a way out. They simply remove EU roaming from their standard subscriptions and it now becomes an add-on. So if you want to use your phone in a different country during the holidays, you'll need an EU roaming subscription. The politicians once again failed to be sufficient precise in formulating a law that would produce the decided result. They should have added a clause that state…

Which telcos and in which country? Everything seems fine here in Croatia.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#25

Post by matthewmacleod » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

blibble wrote: post #8

I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the problem on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU and a good chunk of the rest of the world http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home

Well, it seems clear that the market was failing to deal with this adequately. Three has had free roaming for years, correct—it wasn't across the whole EU though, worth remembering!—but the market had not efficiently reduced the costs for everybody.

You could certainly make the argument that there were other reasons that people didn't all switch to Three, but it seems more likely to me that people consider switching to be too much work. That's essentially an inefficiency in the market – exactly the sort of situation where a regulator should step in.

After all, roaming charges in the EU were essentially price-gouging of the worst kind.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#26

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

tskaiser wrote: post #15

blibble wrote: post #8

I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the problem on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU and a good chunk of the rest of the world http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home

iirc 3 introduced this service when it was announced that these regulations were underway.

[deleted]

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#27

Post by ptaipale » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:51 AM UTC

glebm wrote: post #6

halloij wrote: post #4

So the cost incurred will be passed on to everyone in higher fees. eg people who never "roam" are going to be subsidising those people that do. A negative move spun as a positive... clever EU, clever.

Roaming costs are price gouging, the associated costs of providing roaming are nowhere near.

However, now EU regulates the price to consumers to be lower than the wholesale price of roaming charges between operators. That is a failure. They should regulate the wholesale price.

In practice: I pay 20 € per month for unlimited mobile data. If I go to Italy and use my subscription there, I still pay 20 € per month for unlimited mobile data, but my operator has to pay 7 € per gigabyte to the Italian roaming partner.

Because there are more people traveling from north EU to south EU than vice versa, and competition of mobile operators works much better in northern EU, this is practically a monetary transfer to support the economies of southern Europe. And then there's the possibility that an Italian person acquires a SIM from my operator, because local Italian ones don't sell subscriptions with unlimited mobile data...

My operator has to counter this by a price hike and/or disabling of roaming.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#28

Post by matteuan » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:52 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #17

What is the correct European SIM to buy for data/voice/etc. (prepaid)? Presumably best to get one from a country you don't actually visit much, so you're always roaming, and thus don't pay the home to foreign number charges?

There is a limit of 4 months of roaming usage per year.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#29

Post by halloij » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:52 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #14

Yeah, the telcos have already found a way out. They simply remove EU roaming from their standard subscriptions and it now becomes an add-on. So if you want to use your phone in a different country during the holidays, you'll need an EU roaming subscription. The politicians once again failed to be sufficient precise in formulating a law that would produce the decided result. They should have added a clause that state…

Phew. That's good to know. As someone who has absolutely no desire to ever need "roaming", it's good to know it won't be forced on people.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#30

Post by ptaipale » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 11:52 AM UTC

matteuan wrote: post #16

halloij wrote: post #4

So the cost incurred will be passed on to everyone in higher fees. eg people who never "roam" are going to be subsidising those people that do. A negative move spun as a positive... clever EU, clever.

Not necessary true! There is a huge disparity between the cost of these services to the companies and the price for the users. This means that there is still space for regulation.

I would say there's space for competition, but the EU chose to not regulate to help competition, they chose to regulate to help incumbent South European operators, which are cash cows for well-connected partners.