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Risk it When You're Young

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Re: Risk it When You're Young

#21
[anonymously posted; skip to paragraph 9 for TL; DR.]

I cannot concur enough. I, perhaps, within me, have an entrepreneurial spirit. However, I perhaps am different than most. I did not see any way to get into any industry at all where I was: I got sucked into a game design curriculum believing that since a big-name game company was helping with the structure, my community college would be able to differentiate.

I ended up dropping out, selling my car, and moving six states north. I had no idea what I was going to do. I knew a little bit of CSS, a little bit of HTML, and a smattering of JavaScript - mostly gathered from cut-and-pastes. I had been programming since I was six (starting with qBasic on my father's Gateway machine - ostensibly, to cheat on qBricks: I had asked my father how to cheat, and he handed me a qBasic manual. Off and on I'd programmed: lego logo [robotics] in secondary school; computer science through AP comp sci in high school, covering things as esoteric - back then, to me - as red/black trees).

But the only applicable knowledge I knew was how to make a site look good given a mockup.

After that diatribe, having not gone through explicit training: I wish I had. I do not know data structures, algorithms, and parsing the way I wish I did - the best I did is generate parsing trees based on math input (up to parens - no exponents there). The best datastructure I built was a red-black tree for my final AP comp-sci grade: I never took the AP test. I may have kicked ass with my sorting algorithm a year earlier (dad's book, Dragon Compiler Design, helped - after he pointed me to a certain chapter), but I had barely a grasp of what was going on in that class.

I have not taken a math course higher than college algrebra. Ask me to find dx/xy given y=x^2 and I can barely do it: I've been teaching myselve calculus over the past two months. It's been slow. Thank goodness for 'calculus made easy' - a HN recommendation.

I could wax poetic about what I might have done or what I might have been. But I won't.

You have had education I wish I had had, in retrospect. I have been programming JavaScript (and studying aspects of functional programming I had never even heard mention of 'til Hacker News) in a professional capacity since I left (forcefully: I kept falling asleep building not-even-agency-of-record landing pages for online university direct marketing; thankfully, my manager recognized how bored I was in the role) my first position here.

I have worked for companies large and small. I have ideas I'm sure I could never execute. But I am positive - and this is the [return to the beginning for the TL; DR]

TL;DR: I am positive I would not serve the quality of code I do now, had it not been for peers (mostly superiors) reviewing my code and commenting on how it could be done better. This had never happened during school, as we were all rushing to complete our assignments on time. This only happened when I was working on a team that recognized that the work I was doing was valuable. And that I was worth schooling on style, format, and efficiency.

I may be a (community! I'd started for an associates in arts - english!!) college drop-out, but everything I've learned being a full-time front-end (again: mostly JavaScript) developer has been surpassed again and again by what I learned behind the desk. I don't think I would be the developer I am now without some/most of the lessons taught to me. But I know I would not be the developer I am now without the peer involvement encouraged by working on a team populated by programmers much, much more knowledgeable than I.

Bottom line? Wish I would've gone to school, but shit I've learned professionally is invaluable. Don't underestimate it, and don't think 'apprenticing' isn't worth shit. Because it is.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#22
post #14

There is nothing wrong with a year or three in industry. You'll be a much better coder, get exposed to problem domains outside the typical purview of twenty-something white and Asian males, build contacts, and improve your soft skills such as how to wear a suit and talk to people older than you outside of the teacher/student relationship. These things are enormously valuable. If you're worried about getting spoiled b…

I wanted to "just try the industry for a year" before going back to school to do a PhD. I have ended up being a "Java Enterprise Douchebag" for years :-(

I strongly advise against trying a normal job. Everything you could learn you could learn faster by simply watching the movie "Office Space".

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of shocked at how casually you say 'They can default on their debt'. What a fcked up attitude.

I thought one of the biggest advantage of US financial system is for people to take risks with their business but can fail without a huge hit on their future, i.e. bankruptcy. Without this attitude, you'll have people that is a lot more hesitant to start a business.

Yeah, there's been some research on this, showing a positive relationship between how "forgiving" a country's personal bankruptcy laws are and the level of entrepreneurship in that country: http://aler.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/ahn008v1

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#24

This applies to almost everyone: It will never be cheaper than it is today. The older you get, the more responsibilities you take on. When you have a mortgage, a wife, kids, and car loans, you have to make your startup pay really fast. When you have little debt, can crash on your parents couch (if needed), and drive a crappy old car that is paid for, you can take extreme risks, and the payback can be tiny for the fir…

If you always live at the bleeding edge of your means then this is true. You'll set yourself up on a treadmill of expenses and never get off.

However, if you live well within your means and you make smart financial decisions then the reverse is true. Instead of building your debt you'll build up your savings and your assets. Someone who's just getting out of college and needs to spend money buying basic household goods, an automobile, and needs to pay down their student loans is in a much worse position than someone with savings who doesn't need to pay rent or a car payment because they've already paid off their mortgage and their cars.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#25

I'm 30 now and just getting going on this. My startup is just starting to get some nice sales traction. I've never really understood the assessment of risk that people apply to starting a company. If my company fails when I start full time on it then I'll get a job in a week tops unless I decide to take some time off. My family won't ever notice the difference except when I have to get the insurance information chang…

I think there is a confusion between being young and having enough savings to last you for a year or two. Many young people have zero expenses and thus having two years saved up is easy. For older people, especially with kids, it means you actually have to keep a budget and save. The real goal is the same, having a buffer that lets you take long term bets and still have enough time to find a job in case they don't turn out OK.

I'm in the same boat as you are, a bit over 30 with a kid. Quite frankly, doing a startup now is a lot less risky. I've already done 2 startups before and worked at some incredible companies. And because maintaining that buffer is harder my wife and I have years of practical experience in planning a budget and tracking expenses.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#26
post #14

There is nothing wrong with a year or three in industry. You'll be a much better coder, get exposed to problem domains outside the typical purview of twenty-something white and Asian males, build contacts, and improve your soft skills such as how to wear a suit and talk to people older than you outside of the teacher/student relationship. These things are enormously valuable. If you're worried about getting spoiled b…

You could work at a startup and get some of the same experience, depending on the startup's problem domain. With a small enough startup, you'll wear many hats, and get to make smaller decisions, which would lead to some of the skills you'll end up using when you're running your own show.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#27
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you would truly be homeless if you went bankrupt, then yes, it's not prudent. But many of the people who would be in this position have a safety net if things go bad. They can default on their debt, move in with a friend or relative, and get a job and get back on their feet.

I'm kind of shocked at how casually you say 'They can default on their debt'. What a fcked up attitude.

Wrong, because most of the debt at the age we're talking about are student loans which are non-dischargeable.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#28
post #2

Sure, risk it when you're young, but don't think that the older you get the less risks you should take. It's just the opposite. The "old dogs, new tricks" adage is a fallacy designed to keep people in line. Don't believe it! Take risks when you're young, when you're middle-aged, and when you're old!

I think you should actually take more risks as you get older because you have a reduced amount of time to achieve things.

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#29
post #27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of shocked at how casually you say 'They can default on their debt'. What a fcked up attitude.

Wrong, because most of the debt at the age we're talking about are student loans which are non-dischargeable.

Sorry, reply was meant for the parent :(

Re: Risk it When You're Young

#30
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of shocked at how casually you say 'They can default on their debt'. What a fcked up attitude.

I thought one of the biggest advantage of US financial system is for people to take risks with their business but can fail without a huge hit on their future, i.e. bankruptcy. Without this attitude, you'll have people that is a lot more hesitant to start a business.

Taking undue risks is not a good thing. The greatest thing about a makret economy is that there is both profit and loss. Loss is to keep you from producing things no-one really wants, and is important. Without any risk, sure, people could do creative things they wouldn't have odne otherwise, sure. But you would soon see that the value produced in a society like that would be very small compared to a society where you have to turn a profit.
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