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PyPy v5.8 released

morepypy.blogspot.com

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Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#21

Post by pjmlp »

boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

I get the feeling that CPython developers don't care that much about PyPy, I might be wrong though.

Hence why I am looking forward to Julia making inroads into Python's domain, as that might be the butterfly effect that triggers PyPy adoption.

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#22

Post by pjmlp »

mattbillenstein wrote: post #12
boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

I think the core devs are doing a fine job with CPython as the reference implementation and developing PyPy takes a different set of expertise; JIT and compilers specifically. I think sponsorship of PyPy would be welcome -- but it seems non-obvious where that would come from. Javascript has the fortune of being the language that drives a very important platform -- and Chrome has been a particularly strategic investme…

Java has much more than Android.

Besides the enterprise space, there are lots of embedded devices running it.

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#23

Post by orf »

boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

Newsflash: code like this[1] will never be fast in CPython, and if you write a lot of code like that and are sad when it's slow then you need a different language, especially if you expect it to be as fast as a JIT compiled language like js on v8. Or use something like Cython.

That benchmark is pretty meaningless anyway, IMO. Here are some halfway decent, official and up to date benchmarks comparing python 2 and python 3[2].

Python 3 is slower in some areas, noticilby startup time, but it's not all doom and gloom. It's faster in a lot of places. And productivity is hard to benchmark, but IMO py3 is way better in the area.

1. https://github.com/MikeMirzayanov/binary-heap-benchmark/blob...

2. https://speed.python.org/comparison/?exe=12%2BL%2B3.6%2C12%2...

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#24

Post by boultonmark »

orf wrote: post #23
boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

Newsflash: code like this[1] will never be fast in CPython, and if you write a lot of code like that and are sad when it's slow then you need a different language, especially if you expect it to be as fast as a JIT compiled language like js on v8. Or use something like Cython. That benchmark is pretty meaningless anyway, IMO. Here are some halfway decent, official and up to date benchmarks comparing python 2 and pyth…

Ah the 'smart alec' has appeared. I'm not stupid, I know code like that won't be faster in Python but PyPy shows that it can be a hell of a lot faster than CPython and right up there with Node.js and the travesty is that CPython is so far off the pace and getting slower

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#25

Post by fijal »

boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

in short - funding. If we can find someone who wants fast numpy AND fast python under the same hood, we can combine the approaches of cpyext and numpypy and make it fast. The project is just too big to do on spare time. I've been trying to find some funding for that for quite a while, but I haven't been able to find any sizable backer just yet.

Cheers, Maciej Fijalkowski

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#26

Post by fijal »

orf wrote: post #23
boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

Newsflash: code like this[1] will never be fast in CPython, and if you write a lot of code like that and are sad when it's slow then you need a different language, especially if you expect it to be as fast as a JIT compiled language like js on v8. Or use something like Cython. That benchmark is pretty meaningless anyway, IMO. Here are some halfway decent, official and up to date benchmarks comparing python 2 and pyth…

What's wrong with that code? Runs acceptably fast under pypy

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#27

Post by boultonmark »

red2awn wrote: post #14
boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

> Do they just philosophically not agree with PyPy or is it just disinterest? I think Guido wants the reference implementation to have a simple and straightforward codebase, a JIT is anything but that.

And that would be fine, and my mind goes to similar examples like Lua where the reference and the JIT versions co-exist but PyPy has not had the impact that LuaJIT has had (for example) on the LUA community.

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#28

Post by boultonmark »

fijal wrote: post #25
boultonmark wrote: post #9

I have a question and then a general vent 1. Does anyone know the latest update on NumPyPy? PyPy for me is just not a usable proposition because I heavily use Numpy (and Scipy et al). So I am forced to use slow Python + fast Numpy or slow Numpy + fast Python. Very saddening. The C-Extension is just so off the pace, NumPyPy was meant to solve that quandry. And I know some smart Alec will trot out the usual 'downshift…

in short - funding. If we can find someone who wants fast numpy AND fast python under the same hood, we can combine the approaches of cpyext and numpypy and make it fast. The project is just too big to do on spare time. I've been trying to find some funding for that for quite a while, but I haven't been able to find any sizable backer just yet. Cheers, Maciej Fijalkowski

Maciej, how much would that require, ballpark? I think this is something there would be massive support for. My company would support it

Re: PyPy v5.8 released

#29

Post by lclarkmichalek »

boultonmark wrote: post #24
orf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: code like this[1] will never be fast in CPython, and if you write a lot of code like that and are sad when it's slow then you need a different language, especially if you expect it to be as fast as a JIT compiled language like js on v8. Or use something like Cython. That benchmark is pretty meaningless anyway, IMO. Here are some halfway decent, official and up to date benchmarks comparing python 2 and pyth…

Ah the 'smart alec' has appeared. I'm not stupid, I know code like that won't be faster in Python but PyPy shows that it can be a hell of a lot faster than CPython and right up there with Node.js and the travesty is that CPython is so far off the pace and getting slower

It's not really a travesty. CPython just isn't designed for that kind of workload, and that's fine, because not many people use it to do that kind of thing.
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