Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 35 posts

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#21

Post by tankenmate »

j_m_b wrote: post #10
frankzander wrote: post #3

Best approach: Use no poison. An alien may say: This humans seem to be bit insane - they put a lot of poison on their fields where they grow their food in order to protect their weak breeded plants against pets while they do everything that this pests have a easy run. Maybe we should search for another planet where the creatures seem to be more sane.

> while they do everything that this pests have a easy run Which is exactly why we can produce so much food / acre. Land use would need to go up significantly, and thus the price of food, in order to be able to use "natural" methods of pest control. This would affect developing countries the most.

The article addresses this issue, it says that for soya bean there is no difference between treated seeds and non treated seeds. For corn there is a 2% difference but this was within statistical error for this study. The biggest way to boost crop yield is good quality fertiliser (organic or mineral).

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#22

Post by criddell »

frankzander wrote: post #3

Best approach: Use no poison. An alien may say: This humans seem to be bit insane - they put a lot of poison on their fields where they grow their food in order to protect their weak breeded plants against pets while they do everything that this pests have a easy run. Maybe we should search for another planet where the creatures seem to be more sane.

Assuming aliens treat newly discovered populations the same way humans have over the past 200,000 years, that may be a good thing.

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#23

Post by mlinksva »

soperj wrote: post #20
yawz wrote: post #15

When we talk about "saving bees", most people think about honey bees. I'm a hobbyist beekeeper, and honey bees have a good chance of surviving thanks to people who care about them. However, in most places, there are dozens or hundreds of other bee species. We don't know or hear much about them. They are solitary bees, various types of bumblebees, etc. They are the ones disappearing, and fast. Unfortunately, they are…

I make mason bee houses(hotels, whatever) where ever I end up living (renting, moved around a bit). They're pretty awesome, no stingers, pollinate everything, and the houses are easy to build.

Interesting, thanks for posting this. I take some care to plant 'bee friendly' stuff but have no interest in beekeeping and have never bothered to look up fostering non-honeybees. Now I will do this after reading your comment http://www.ecolandscaping.org/03/beneficials/attract-mason-b... and some of the links from there.

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#24

Post by losteric »

libdong wrote: post #7
amelius wrote: post #2

Can't these seeds be treated with an additional protective coating that dissolves after planting?

It might be possible, but I'm guessing it's not trivial to make a hard coating which also has the ability to dissolve arbitrarily.

What about a hard coating that dissolves in the presence of water?

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#25

Post by skookumchuck »

roel_v wrote: post #9
kavalg wrote: post #4

Does that mean that neonicotinoids are now confirmed to be a major factor contributing to the bee colony collapse?

'One of the factors', yes. There are three causes, which are separate but related: - pesticide use (neonics, mostly) - 'varroa destructor' parasites - loss of bee habitat ('green deserts') This triple-whammy is too much for bees, but that's not to say that solving just one issue (or even two) would be 'enough' of a solution. The first one will be solved (I think) by public awareness. There is a clear direction in the…

I regularly try to plant my yard with "meadow mix" that includes lots of wildflowers, but the darn stuff never germinates. Just invasive weeds.

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#26

Post by azinman2 »

roel_v wrote: post #9
kavalg wrote: post #4

Does that mean that neonicotinoids are now confirmed to be a major factor contributing to the bee colony collapse?

'One of the factors', yes. There are three causes, which are separate but related: - pesticide use (neonics, mostly) - 'varroa destructor' parasites - loss of bee habitat ('green deserts') This triple-whammy is too much for bees, but that's not to say that solving just one issue (or even two) would be 'enough' of a solution. The first one will be solved (I think) by public awareness. There is a clear direction in the…

Unfortunately (from my perspective) I don't think we'll end up with pesticides etc going away. Humans are bad at understanding long-term threats, and ultimately immediate price matters the most for many. Combine those factors with the growing income inequality in this country and market pressures will continue to facilitate whatever ends up increasing yield (and thus lowering price of food).

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#27

Post by yawz »

soperj wrote: post #20
yawz wrote: post #15

When we talk about "saving bees", most people think about honey bees. I'm a hobbyist beekeeper, and honey bees have a good chance of surviving thanks to people who care about them. However, in most places, there are dozens or hundreds of other bee species. We don't know or hear much about them. They are solitary bees, various types of bumblebees, etc. They are the ones disappearing, and fast. Unfortunately, they are…

I make mason bee houses(hotels, whatever) where ever I end up living (renting, moved around a bit). They're pretty awesome, no stingers, pollinate everything, and the houses are easy to build.

Great! Mason bees are very gentle, and are good pollinators for fruits, nuts and certain flowers. We've had a small mason bee house for a while in the back yard. My son loves it. :)

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#28

Post by roel_v »

azinman2 wrote: post #26
roel_v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'One of the factors', yes. There are three causes, which are separate but related: - pesticide use (neonics, mostly) - 'varroa destructor' parasites - loss of bee habitat ('green deserts') This triple-whammy is too much for bees, but that's not to say that solving just one issue (or even two) would be 'enough' of a solution. The first one will be solved (I think) by public awareness. There is a clear direction in the…

Unfortunately (from my perspective) I don't think we'll end up with pesticides etc going away. Humans are bad at understanding long-term threats, and ultimately immediate price matters the most for many. Combine those factors with the growing income inequality in this country and market pressures will continue to facilitate whatever ends up increasing yield (and thus lowering price of food).

Yes, that's right - I don't think so either. The Green Revolution wouldn't have been possible without chemical fertilizers and pesticides, we don't have replacements for them. But hopefully we can move towards a sustainable use of least-damage chemicals. There is a clear need and incentive for all parties to save bees. Many species won't be that lucky, of course.

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#29

Post by roel_v »

skookumchuck wrote: post #25
roel_v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'One of the factors', yes. There are three causes, which are separate but related: - pesticide use (neonics, mostly) - 'varroa destructor' parasites - loss of bee habitat ('green deserts') This triple-whammy is too much for bees, but that's not to say that solving just one issue (or even two) would be 'enough' of a solution. The first one will be solved (I think) by public awareness. There is a clear direction in the…

I regularly try to plant my yard with "meadow mix" that includes lots of wildflowers, but the darn stuff never germinates. Just invasive weeds.

Yeah it's usually not as simple as the package wants you to believe. On one plot I tried to renaturalize, birds would eat any seeds within hours after I'd spread them. Are you sowing in existing grass? Clearing some of it may help establish in a few places. Grass is the most noxious weed of all to remove, and the common lawn varieties compete with the sort of flowers in such mixes.

Re: Two Different Approaches to Saving Bees

#30

Post by roel_v »

wodenokoto wrote: post #19
roel_v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'One of the factors', yes. There are three causes, which are separate but related: - pesticide use (neonics, mostly) - 'varroa destructor' parasites - loss of bee habitat ('green deserts') This triple-whammy is too much for bees, but that's not to say that solving just one issue (or even two) would be 'enough' of a solution. The first one will be solved (I think) by public awareness. There is a clear direction in the…

Thank you for the insights. Are there any numbers comparing colony collapse between normal and organic beehives? I imagine that bees used for producing organic honey will have access to greater variety of plants, since their immediate surroundings doesn't contain pesticides, which obviously also lowers their exposure to pesticides. I'm aware that bees used for organic honey travels outside their designated organic ha…

Thing is, there is no such thing as the colony collapse. Some colonies just disappear (abscond) and we don't know why, others are weak and don't survive winter, others are so heavily infested with varroa destructor that too many bees get deformed wing virus and fizzles out, ... It's a combination of things, which is what makes it so difficult to nail down. Furthermore, there are many more factors that make it hard to compare apples to apples (how many colonies in the area? How much forage? Weather? Disease vectors present? Etc...)

There are some monitoted experiments (google 'bond experiment' for example) but they cannot be used for 1:1 comparisons to say what is 'better'. Plus, what is 'organic'? Technically (legally), it's following Demeter standards, but who can fulfill those? Does that mean that all those others are 'non-organic'? No, there's a very wide range left.

And even more... What are the goals of the beekeeper? No commercial apiary can survive with 5 kg/year yield per hive. Should commercial honey production go away? Leaving aside the animal welfare aspect, I think there's room for a range of approaches, but it needs to be balanced. Of course, balanced by whom, that's the question...

Post reply on HN