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Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

wired.co.uk

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Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#21

Post by downandout »

bobajeff wrote: post #16
TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

Because it's an invasion of privacy. If you have a personal conversation to a friend about a party you had when you were five you don't expect to hear details referenced by a busker the next day at a park you frequent. Edit: I was arguing with no one.

It's an invasion of privacy that you agree to and receive valuable services (for free) in return for. Don't want to be tracked? Don't use Google or Facebook. Problem solved.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#22

Post by ebtalley »

TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

Maybe they arent enamored with personalized ads. What if its a bit of a white wash or generalized term. What if they knew enough about peoples personality and thoughts that they could guide that person to want their product. Like were in the beginning of a path that leads to someone being able to tell us how to think and where to go. All very distopian, but I agree I feel like we're quickly moving past personalized ads.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#23

Post by bobajeff »

downandout wrote: post #21
bobajeff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's an invasion of privacy. If you have a personal conversation to a friend about a party you had when you were five you don't expect to hear details referenced by a busker the next day at a park you frequent. Edit: I was arguing with no one.

It's an invasion of privacy that you agree to and receive valuable services (for free) in return for. Don't want to be tracked? Don't use Google or Facebook. Problem solved.

I'm pretty sure no one who uses Google or Facebook is presented with a dialog that says 'This service is free in exchange for your privacy. Do you agree?'

Even if that were the case the fact that both of those services are monopolies means that the choice is essentially between using public utilities or becoming Amish.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#24

Post by paulryanrogers »

TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

In a perfect world targeted ads could respond to what you want and haven't found yourself. And it would be at the best price, performance, etc that you preferred.

Recently I was seeking a way to record surround sound in surround sound. If ads had led me to that it would have been great. Instead I spent a week seeking and experimenting until sibling upon a semi abandoned commercial solution.

In practice ads don't know my desires well enough.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#25

Post by eveningcoffee »

TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

The main difference is that with something targeted to wider audience you still are enforced to maintain some form of honesty and integrity.

Targeted ads can be made tailored to you to tell you the exact lie you want to hear to generate the expected outcome.

It can be accepted to certain exempt with products maybe, but what about political advertisements?

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#26

Post by eveningcoffee »

nercht12 wrote: post #12

Where do you draw the line for the "ban" though? ISPs, Google, and many of these companies collect PI for payments and associate these payments with invoices/receipts/etc. so in effect, they already have some of this info. We could ask for no analytics code on sites, but then we speculate on what code belongs to the "analytics" and what is there merely for "services". The latter would blanket everything. Besides - wh…

Most important thing is to make it impossible to create feedback loops.

Nobody should not be able to know how successful the ad campaign was for every single person.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#27

Post by jrnichols »

TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

I had targeted ads ruin a surprise gift last year. Bunch of ads showing up made it very obvious that I was looking at (and bought) a thinkgeek gift for the girlfriend. That was one of the moments that made me sick of such laser targeted advertising.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#28

Post by TimJYoung »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #24
TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

In a perfect world targeted ads could respond to what you want and haven't found yourself. And it would be at the best price, performance, etc that you preferred. Recently I was seeking a way to record surround sound in surround sound. If ads had led me to that it would have been great. Instead I spent a week seeking and experimenting until sibling upon a semi abandoned commercial solution. In practice ads don't know…

I agree, but I don't think you can get there without seriously compromising the privacy of the individual. It's just too easy to leak information about a given individual when their "profile" is available to companies.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#29

Post by TimJYoung »

TylerE wrote: post #18
TimJYoung wrote: post #9

I don't understand why people are so enamored of personalized ads. Advertising was around a long time before personalized ads were even a thing, yet it managed to still work by targeting publications that matched the target customer. This was accomplished by geographic location, for general consumer ads, or by interest, for targeted ads, B2B, etc.

"Still worked" is very hard to quantify. Traditional media advertising is basically impossible to put hard numbers on.

It is, for sure, but I take it as self-evident that capitalism would not have used general forms of advertising for as long as it did if they didn't work.

This doesn't mean that traditional forms of advertising are the most ideal. But, when it comes to commerce, we often need to curb the ideal in favor of the consumer and their individual concerns.

Re: Opera’s founder calls for a ban on tracking on Facebook and Google

#30

Post by paulddraper »

ginko wrote: post #19
mankyd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet... To make up an example, when I walk into a movie theater, I prefer to see ads for movies that I might actually go see. If I have kids, I might be interested in the latest G-rated film. If I don't, that probably won't tempt me. Location alone doesn't tell you that info. I kind of like getting at least some specificity and personalization with my ads.

When I walk into a movie theater, I already know what movie I'm going to see. Ideally I don't want to have to see 15-30 minutes of trailers before the actual film starts either.

I don't mind seeing 1 plus 6 hundreds movie for the price of 1.
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