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Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#21

Hi, moved to Barcelona about two years ago (from London). Here's a post I wrote last summer about some of my impressions. http://www.freyfogle.com/post/1466857133/moving-to-barcelona In short: quality of life is great, and the tech scene, though still small, is growing rapidly. For the Barcelona I highly recommend you subscribe to this weekly newsletter http://www.barcinno.com

Hi, do you know if there's anything like barcinno for Madrid?

I don't follow the Madrid scene at all, so no idea if such a thing exists. Sorry

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#22
I remember having read a forum post of a highly (!) gifted spanish programmer and engineer over at diyaudio.com, maybe ten years back. She was seeking for a job in her home and complained, that there is no place one with her talents could go, if interested in research. Admittedly, that was ten years ago, she was a hardware person (switching PSU design, etc.) and a systems, not a business, programmer.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#25
Bienvenido! I do not think that the language is going to be a barrier for the kind of companies you are looking for. Also, you can always look for a remote job.

If I was you I'll double check other cities like Valencia, Málaga and Mallorca.

Bear in mind that the cost of life in Spain can vary a lot from one city to the other.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#26

> considering moving to Spain for non-career-related reasons Which are? Genuinely interested why someone would consider taking a huge cut in salary. Instead of moving now. Why not slash your current expenses to the bone? Save like crazy for a year, then move with a nice bank balance and ease yourself into the country without the stresses of quickly learning the language, making good friends, networking, etc. Even bet…

Not sure why you are being down-voted with a legitimate question.

Maybe the down voters can explain why it's a bad idea to move to another country and create a startup?

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#27
Tech salaries in Spain are not higher than for other sectors, as the tech sector is still very small, and most jobs are inside "cost centers" of other companies (banks, telcos, etc.). A typical (good!) staring salary would be 25k for Madrid or 20k for Barcelona. In contrast you'd see 40k in Paris or Berlin for a similar job. It's typical to have 14 monthly payments (with extra payment in July/August and Christmas), so that ends up being around 1200 euros net per month.

Quality of life is great, though, and not so expensive. The Lancet recently [1] put Spain's healthcare as 8th in the world, food is great, the social scene is very open to foreigners, climate is better than in northern europe, etc.

The worse part of your expenses in either Madrid or Barcelona will be renting an apartment, as prices are rising quickly (after the financial crisis, housing plummeted, so construction stopped. But now everyone with some extra cash is buying apartments for renting them, and there's extra pressure to make them a worthwhile investment).

Spain's economy is divided in tiny companies (PYMES), and huge companies. We lack a lot of medium sized companies such as the german mittelstands, and it shows on job mobility and opportunities. Compounding this with a small tech scene, it might be hard to find a job opportunity. But tech is growing quickly, as others have mentioned.

If you are functional in spanish, it shouldn't be a problem, but mind that spaniards are not so used to working with other nationalities, so you will be somewhat "exotic" and you will get a mild joke from time to time. You might find some "inferiority complex", particularly if you are german/french/american, as Spain has traditionally looked abroad for innovation and modernity references (famously pictured by Unamuno and his "Que inventen ellos" quote [2]).

The contracting area is dismal. Most of autonomos are either micropymes or false autonomos, actually working for one huge company, with total dependence and a huge risk, without the normal employee rights and securities. Spain is not accustomed to paying fair prices for contract work. And outside the tech scene, there will be often requests for working for free (typical for design or copy work), or without paying taxes ("cobrar en B").

On the Madrid vs. Barcelona topic I'm of course biased, being from Madrid, but I find that foreigners are initially much more familiar with Barcelona, and they overlook Madrid. Madrid is great! And more objectively: it is bigger, with more opportunities, without language problems (catalan might be an issue from time to time, mostly if you are still learning spanish, but you will also find people from time to time that refuse to speak spanish for political reasons), and with less tourists yet more foreigners (you will not be treated so much as a cash-cow tourist, as some of my friends have suffered a couple of times in Barcelona).

Overall, I'd say you can live very well in Spain, but it is not the place if you seek big career opportunities. Of course all of this is a HUGE simplification, and you can find excellent opportunities in Spain, and shitty opportunities elsewhere. I personally have a lot of french friends working in Madrid with excellent jobs and adamant on staying for the rest of their lives. And all of what I said is improving quickly; Spain got a really big economic push when entering the euro, and although the crisis stuck VERY hard, we are recovering and accelerating a lot!

[1] http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67... [2] (spanish) https://blogs.iadb.org/puntossobrelai/2016/06/06/que-invente...

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#28

> considering moving to Spain for non-career-related reasons Which are? Genuinely interested why someone would consider taking a huge cut in salary. Instead of moving now. Why not slash your current expenses to the bone? Save like crazy for a year, then move with a nice bank balance and ease yourself into the country without the stresses of quickly learning the language, making good friends, networking, etc. Even bet…

> Genuinely interested why someone would consider taking a huge cut in salary.

Friendly people; easier life; excelent food; nobody shooting you at the shool; Wyoming winters; no coyotes, alligators or snapping turtles trying to dinner on you or your pet, swimming at the sea in april...

Oh, and there is the universal, excelent and almost free healthcare also. I forgot it.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#29

Hello. Barcelona native here, lived and worked for years in the NY tech scene and now I am in London, although I go back to Barcelona often, and I'm seriously considering moving back. (I don't know the situation in Madrid well enough). Here are my points: On the one hand, the tech ecosystem is clearly not as strong as Berlin/London or even Paris, and the average engineer salary is _low_. That also might mean there is…

There was a moment during my wife and I's honeymoon to Mallorca/Barcelona where I was jogging through Gracia and I truly thought that this was where I was meant to live. A really...really beautiful and amazing city. Once my two huge dogs pass(I can't bear the thought of moving them overseas) I will try my darnedest to move to Catalonia.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#30
(born in Barcelona, lived on both cities): these two are really different places. Tech scene is also clearly different. As I see it, Barcelona is smaller and cozier, tech scene might be hotter, but that might be from my own bias. Madrid is big, active and noisy. There are plenty of jobs on Madrid, compared to Barcelona, although I still think the hot stuff is on the latter.

Being both cities relatively near, why don't you take a week to visit them both? Register to some meetups, visit tech hubs, incubators, etc, and see for yourself which one feels like the place you want to be in. Now is a good time to visit, as the weather is calm. I would stay away from Madrid on august.

As for freelancing, I wouldn't recommend unless you are going to work for foreign clients.

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