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Notes from an Emergency [video]

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Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#21

Post by dasmoth »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #18
dasmoth wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we regulate in a way that limits the power of the big five without also hurting small businesses? Otherwise, the end result will almost certainly be to bolster Google and Facebook.

By creating strong regulations to curb the worst practices of ad company tracking, then dismantling these monopolies the same way we did with Microsoft in the 90s.

I'm not at all confident that the Microsoft antitrust moves really did much to erode their dominance on the desktop -- rather, the desktop becoming less relevant has done that.

If anyone won from those actions, it was Google...

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#22

Post by TeMPOraL »

Typical 'idlewords :). Lots of good points intermingled with unwarranted jabs at Elon Musk, X-risk and anti-aging efforts. I suppose the latter are just signalling, but they do detract from the point he's making.

The points about tech running amok with the surveillance capitalism are spot on. I do have some doubts about other parts though; here are they in somewhat random order:

-- Problem solving.

I'm not buying this villifying of tech world for trying to avoid the "dirty political work". In fact, I believe it's a good approach. Turning a problem into a political issue pretty much guarantees that it won't be solved as people take sides and then invent arguments to rationalize their positions. Just look at the climate change - since it became politicized, it's close to impossible to do anything in the area (Trump's election in the US is not helping either). The only way to address it now is by ignoring the democratic process altogether - by doing research, developing new technologies, and hoping for the market forces to sort things out.

Moreover, why does the tech industry is always blamed for trying to avoid political work? Like, are there no human beings who don't work in tech industry that could try a different approach? Why is tech industry expected to do everything, and then at the same time gets called out for hubris?

Related, on tech and life extension efforts. I call the Comet King principle - "somebody has to and no one else will". Why is nobody else besides tech billionaires interested in putting serious resources into solving that problem?

-- Poland.

Is it an evil surveillance state now? I live there and I haven't noticed it.

-- Trump.

I'm starting to get a feeling that some people on anti-Trump side are just sore losers, and can't accept that he won democratic elections; no, it must be some conspiracy. I'm not endorsing what Trump is doing, but the facts on the ground are that many people did vote for him, and denying them agency makes it more difficult to notice the problems those people face in their lives.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#23

Post by appleflaxen »

gojomo wrote: post #14

Ceglowski wants internet companies to be brought under stronger regulatory authority of local European governments, to protect societies and elections from pernicious forces in those companies and on the internet generally. He hopes there's a spillover benefit to people in other countries. "Regulate, regulate, regulate!", Maciej urges. Erdogan of Turkey says, "OK, Maciej!" – blocking Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, & Wi…

you are building a caricature of his argument, painting it with facism, and then knocking it down.

in other words: a straw man.

nothing you mention is advocated by the presenter.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#25

Post by ams6110 »

avaer wrote: post #13
ploggingdev wrote: post #4

> Regulate ads to target content, not users. This. 1000x. At it's core this is essentially like sponsorship. Anecdote : I've always found sponsored content more useful than the ads that ad networks show me and they are also not creepy like traditional ads. Eg- I search for strawberries on google, click through a few links. Separately I visit a tech blog to learn about how to monitor a VPS, guess what shows up on a si…

What's your selling point to advertisers though? That you're a worse-targeted version of the big guys? You could say you're more user-friendly, but I don't think that's a premium most advertisers are willing to subsidize. If this were a good opportunity for an ad network, then we wouldn't need any regulation to force it.

Maybe the selling point is "we place your ads where they will be relevant and users won't be so inclined to block them" and back that up with statistics.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#26

Post by wongarsu »

avaer wrote: post #13
ploggingdev wrote: post #4

> Regulate ads to target content, not users. This. 1000x. At it's core this is essentially like sponsorship. Anecdote : I've always found sponsored content more useful than the ads that ad networks show me and they are also not creepy like traditional ads. Eg- I search for strawberries on google, click through a few links. Separately I visit a tech blog to learn about how to monitor a VPS, guess what shows up on a si…

What's your selling point to advertisers though? That you're a worse-targeted version of the big guys? You could say you're more user-friendly, but I don't think that's a premium most advertisers are willing to subsidize. If this were a good opportunity for an ad network, then we wouldn't need any regulation to force it.

The selling point so advertisers would be click-through rates, engagement rates, proportion of ads blocked etc. But those numbers are kind of hard to predict. You would actually need to collect those numbers somewhere and compare them to numbers other advertising networks publish.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#27

Post by 10165 »

idlewords wrote: post #19
gojomo wrote: post #14

Ceglowski wants internet companies to be brought under stronger regulatory authority of local European governments, to protect societies and elections from pernicious forces in those companies and on the internet generally. He hopes there's a spillover benefit to people in other countries. "Regulate, regulate, regulate!", Maciej urges. Erdogan of Turkey says, "OK, Maciej!" – blocking Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, & Wi…

Obviously there is good and bad regulation. I go into specifics about what I want in the text version of this talk, and here: http://idlewords.com/six_fixes.htm

Regarding the "right to go offline", I see an increasing trend of non-networking software that inexplicably "requires" the user to have an internet connection.

This trend may have the effect of coercing users to stay connected. (Even if the "requirement" is not truly a requirement but merely a suggestion or recommendation disguised as a directive.)

As such, users with the "right to go offline" may not do so because a company is telling them they must stay connected in order for some (non-networking) software to work.

There are many examples of such software, and at the risk of annoying some people, I will provide some.

But the nature of my question arises from the simple idea that sometimes software can accomplish it purpose without an internet connection, as will be familar to anyone who used such software before internet connections were inexpensive, "always on" or fast.

This a broad concept. It applies to all software.

Random example 1: Professional/hobbyist audio recording, editing software

Random example 2: Unnamed operating system setting world records for number of "updates"

"Office suite" software, e.g., word processor, spreadsheet, etc.

Can a user record and edit audio without having an internet connection?

Can a user read, create, edit a document or spreadsheet while being disconnected from the internet?

There are reasons that companies want users to stay connected.

However users are not always given full details on those reasons.

Obviously leaving computers connected poses risks for the user.

Users have to weight those risks. Should users be entitled to the full details? (Without having to use a program like "Little Snitch".)

The first question to ask is: Can a given program accomplish it purpose without using the network?

If yes, then the next question is: Why does a company "require" a user to have a working internet connection for the use of this software?

Free use of a user's internet connection by a company enables collecting user data and potentially generating revenue from user data, e.g., through advertising.

But should users give away their network bandwidth to companies to use however they see fit?

Even more, should users give away their RAM as if it was an inexpensive, infinite resource?

Software programs that generate revenue routinely increase "minimum RAM requirements" year by year but many times users receive no details on why the increases are needed.

The reasons could be legitimate however they might also be questionable. Without consideration of the undisclosed details, how can users make informed decisions?

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#28

Post by alex_young »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #22

Typical 'idlewords :). Lots of good points intermingled with unwarranted jabs at Elon Musk, X-risk and anti-aging efforts. I suppose the latter are just signalling, but they do detract from the point he's making. The points about tech running amok with the surveillance capitalism are spot on. I do have some doubts about other parts though; here are they in somewhat random order: -- Problem solving. I'm not buying thi…

You completely lost me by calling a sizable majority of voters anti-democratic sore losers.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#29

Post by nostrademons »

idlewords wrote: post #19
gojomo wrote: post #14

Ceglowski wants internet companies to be brought under stronger regulatory authority of local European governments, to protect societies and elections from pernicious forces in those companies and on the internet generally. He hopes there's a spillover benefit to people in other countries. "Regulate, regulate, regulate!", Maciej urges. Erdogan of Turkey says, "OK, Maciej!" – blocking Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, & Wi…

Obviously there is good and bad regulation. I go into specifics about what I want in the text version of this talk, and here: http://idlewords.com/six_fixes.htm

What makes you think you'll get the regulation you want, vs. the regulation that whatever politician who picks up this cause wants?

If you want implementation of the six fixes you list there (which in general I think are pretty reasonable), you need to be out there beating that list specifically into peoples' heads, over and over again. You can't just call for blanket regulation, which will be interpreted in whatever self-serving way the politician who enacts it wants. Those six fixes need to be a meme in their own right in public consciousness, such that failure to implement them and only them will doom a politician in elections.

Re: Notes from an Emergency [video]

#30

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #18
dasmoth wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we regulate in a way that limits the power of the big five without also hurting small businesses? Otherwise, the end result will almost certainly be to bolster Google and Facebook.

By creating strong regulations to curb the worst practices of ad company tracking, then dismantling these monopolies the same way we did with Microsoft in the 90s.

The regulation of Microsoft is what got us where we are today in terms of loss of privacy.

The Microsoft model was:

1) Money from selling useful software that people buy

2) The web as an information source. Apps are actually software that is (paid for and) installed

3) The PC as hub for the user's digital Life

Instead, with help from the DOJ, Microsoft lost, and now we have the Google model

1) Software and services given away as enticement for user data which is then sold to advertisers.

2) Primacy of the web app over installed apps.

3) A central service as the hub of a user's digital life.

These together have eroded privacy and user's control over their data.

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