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Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

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Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#21

Post by MikeKusold »

lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

> It's not at all surprising that their initial "success" is tied to torrenting as well.

Two founders of Spotify came from uTorrent after the sale.[1][2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ek [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludvig_Strigeus

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#22

Post by LordKano »

radlad wrote: post #12
lettergram wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not telling you not to use their service, my wife (for example) continues to use Spotify. However, I personally will never use their service again. When they thought it was alright to use my network (that I pay for) to make money, then I have a right to turn my back on them. Questionable legality is one thing, I personally could care less about laws. I break probably 5 or 6 laws an hour. Laws have nothing to do a…

I think the parent's point was that people and companies make mistakes. Voting with your wallet is a great idea -- often times when I pull funding from a company for a perceived slight, if they react to my vote, I'll vote again by paying for their service.

There are some transgressions that people don't forgive easily or at all.

I have been taking part in a one man boycott of Nintendo for over 20 years.

Not that it hurts them. Not that they care. I was just done with them.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#23

Post by awinder »

oblio wrote: post #15
drakenot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They removed P2P streaming around 2014[0]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/17/spotify-removes-peer-to-pe...

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

It's probably fair to attribute this to Skype since it's the same people, but didn't that design originate out of the Kazaa file sharing network way back in the day? As I understood it there was some degree of protocol / code-sharing between Kazaa and Skype at least early-on.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#24

Post by pmarreck »

lettergram wrote: post #11
pmarreck wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hence I'll never go back. So basically, you're saying that since they (according to you) weren't plastering news about their P2P design across all their marketing (as if most people would even be able to understand that, from a marketing perspective), and DESPITE the fact that it was well-known enough for academic papers in 2011 to be written on the design ( http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-st…

I'm not telling you not to use their service, my wife (for example) continues to use Spotify. However, I personally will never use their service again. When they thought it was alright to use my network (that I pay for) to make money, then I have a right to turn my back on them. Questionable legality is one thing, I personally could care less about laws. I break probably 5 or 6 laws an hour. Laws have nothing to do a…

The issue I'm taking with this is that Spotify did not try to hide, be cagey or act deceptively about the p2p aspect of their design at all; in fact here is a 2011 article on an academic paper on the design http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-stats... and here is a question-and-answer from their support community about it, from 2013: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux-Windows-Web-P... Hardly a design aspect that everyone who actually cared about such things was intentionally kept in the dark about.

I would feel it is justified to be miffed if they tried to do it in secret and it was determined that they did indeed try to hide or downplay this fact, but this is not in fact what happened. Their stance seemed to be "yeah, this is currently how it works, we know some customers are unhappy with the arrangement, so we'll eventually change it, but you can't currently turn uploads off." Thus, you are basing your indignation off your own ignorance, and not reality.

Full disclosure: Am long-time Spotify fan (hey, gotta be honest!)

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#25

Post by pmarreck »

radlad wrote: post #12
lettergram wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not telling you not to use their service, my wife (for example) continues to use Spotify. However, I personally will never use their service again. When they thought it was alright to use my network (that I pay for) to make money, then I have a right to turn my back on them. Questionable legality is one thing, I personally could care less about laws. I break probably 5 or 6 laws an hour. Laws have nothing to do a…

I think the parent's point was that people and companies make mistakes. Voting with your wallet is a great idea -- often times when I pull funding from a company for a perceived slight, if they react to my vote, I'll vote again by paying for their service.

I was making that point, and ALSO the point that the perceived slight was purely in the eye of the beholder, I edited my comment to add a link to a 2011 academic paper on Spotify's P2P architecture that proves that they were not being cagey or secretive about this part of the design, it was already "out there" and if it just so happened to first cross this guy's radar when he saw the outbound traffic on his own network, he can't really blame Spotify, he can only be indignant at his own ignorance.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#26

Post by TorKlingberg »

oblio wrote: post #15
drakenot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They removed P2P streaming around 2014[0]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/17/spotify-removes-peer-to-pe...

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

With a P2P architecture you basically have to use "super nodes" to get through firewalls. There are three main reasons Skype dropped P2P:

* The nefariousness one: So Microsoft can let NSA and the cops listen in.

* Because mobile clients don't work well with P2P.

* Because servers and bandwidth got really cheap.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#27

Post by [deleted] »

awinder wrote: post #23
oblio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

It's probably fair to attribute this to Skype since it's the same people, but didn't that design originate out of the Kazaa file sharing network way back in the day? As I understood it there was some degree of protocol / code-sharing between Kazaa and Skype at least early-on.

[deleted]

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#28

Post by pmarreck »

LordKano wrote: post #22
radlad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent's point was that people and companies make mistakes. Voting with your wallet is a great idea -- often times when I pull funding from a company for a perceived slight, if they react to my vote, I'll vote again by paying for their service.

There are some transgressions that people don't forgive easily or at all. I have been taking part in a one man boycott of Nintendo for over 20 years. Not that it hurts them. Not that they care. I was just done with them.

I hesitate to ask, but what did Nintendo do to justify this lifetime ban? ;) (also, I kind of want a Switch, but anyway)

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#29

Post by dsp1234 »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #26
oblio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

With a P2P architecture you basically have to use "super nodes" to get through firewalls. There are three main reasons Skype dropped P2P: * The nefariousness one: So Microsoft can let NSA and the cops listen in. * Because mobile clients don't work well with P2P. * Because servers and bandwidth got really cheap.

and because Skype didn't own the IP for their p2p implementation, or even the source code to it.

"An executable-only object code form of the GI Software was licensed by Joltid to Skype, a well-known Internet-based company that provides users throughout the world with free or low-cost telephone services over the Internet. Skype did not obtain a license to the GI Software source code, however"[0]

[0] - https://techcrunch.com/2009/09/18/new-lawsuit-brings-clarity...

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#30

Post by throw52191375 »

crucialfelix wrote: post #20
Kiro wrote: post #9

Yes, if you used Spotify Beta it was very obvious. On release the library was reduced to a fragment of its former self. It was also something everyone said: "in the Beta they used the employees' MP3 libraries, that's why it used to be so good".

It was amazing. A massive library of obscure releases across all genres. Merzbow box set, thousands and thousands of country LPs, music from African and Asian countries. Gradually it got whittled down to what certain labels would agree to.

You can stream torrents [0], how long until someone makes a Spotify clone using torrents with a curated home page and integrated torrent search? Like Popcorntime and Netflix?

You could re-sell a one click VPN for revenue.

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