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More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

arstechnica.com

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Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#21

Post by izacus »

nom wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if Google, Apple or Amazon are doing (or going to do) something similar. It doesn't create much traffic at all, a couple of bytes is enough and they can be tacked on to the data stream without anyone noticing. Someone should build an ultrasonic detector that can recognize these kind of packets and have a look how wide spread this technique already is. We could also need an ultrasonic jammer an…

Hmm, did't people report that their Amazon devices fire up when Amazon ads are playing on TV?

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#22

Post by rubatuga »

izacus wrote: post #20
rubatuga wrote: post #11

Why does android trust developers so much? Just lock down the apps already, and make microphone usage obvious.

Because we already have a locked-down platform and you're welcome to use it.

Which I do use, if you mean iOS. I'm advocating for further development of android, which hopefully stimulates some more competition. Or maybe it's a good thing that Android is so broken in a privacy sense. It allows government + malicious entities to target it much easier instead of iOS devices, leaving me safer. /s

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#23

Post by vetinari »

rubatuga wrote: post #11

Why does android trust developers so much? Just lock down the apps already, and make microphone usage obvious.

Android doesn't trust developers. It trusts users - everything has to be disclosed and users have to agree. It is a open platform, not walled garden.

We have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_pigs problem there.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#24

Post by pdkl95 »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #8
bryanatwood wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there should be an icon when your mic is active. I tried to build a service in Android to do this but there's no API to get whether the mic is in use or not AFAIK. I ended up disabling mic access for almost all apps, but the Google App and Google Play Services complain when you do this.

I'd go even further and light the notification LED the entire time something is reading the camera/mic from the firmware (such that applications can't disable it via software). The indicator works well for the webcams on most laptops.

The LED should be in series with e.g. the Vcc pin on the ADC. Enabling the recording hardware needs to depend on the LED being on.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#25

Post by blurbleblurble »

izacus wrote: post #19

ArsTechnica unfortunately again misleads people due to limited expertise. On modern Androids (6.0+) accessing the microphone requires an explicit permission granted by user (just like on iOS). Furthermore, due to Doze mode implemented in 6.0 and expanded in 7.0 running these kind of services without notifying the user cleary (with permanent notification) has become pretty much impossible and unreliable. To run in bac…

Yes, I agree, including gyroscopes. As well as a way of seeing which apps are using the sensors.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#26

Post by rubatuga »

vetinari wrote: post #23
rubatuga wrote: post #11

Why does android trust developers so much? Just lock down the apps already, and make microphone usage obvious.

Android doesn't trust developers. It trusts users - everything has to be disclosed and users have to agree. It is a open platform, not walled garden. We have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_pigs problem there.

Thanks for that, it seems to explain most of the problems security faces today. It's similar to how social engineering works, for example, even if someone was told that plugging in a dropped USB stick is dangerous, they may still do it because of the burning curiosity inside. ( I myself would take a peek, at least on a sandbox or VM )

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#27

Post by izacus »

rubatuga wrote: post #22
izacus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we already have a locked-down platform and you're welcome to use it.

Which I do use, if you mean iOS. I'm advocating for further development of android, which hopefully stimulates some more competition. Or maybe it's a good thing that Android is so broken in a privacy sense. It allows government + malicious entities to target it much easier instead of iOS devices, leaving me safer. /s

You're missing the fact that we're using Android because it's NOT locked down and just like malicious apps can use hardware in background... that actually lets useful apps use hardware in background as well.

Free market at its best - if you want a corporation to babysit you, you have a platform. If you don't (and want to accept consequences) you can use another one. Great for all of us.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#28

Post by mlvljr »

had2makeanacct wrote: post #12
irq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple would never do something like this. It's totally against their MO.

You're putting way too much trust on a company that constantly screws over it's customers to earn some more money by removing ports, putting functionality behind paywall (looking at you Safari extension costs), etc. They're better than Android phones in these matters but their financial position might change some day and they might do it.

you are a disgrace

kidding

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#29

Post by shimo5037 »

mistermann wrote: post #7

I'd like to be able to find an Android utility that shows me apps/processes that are auto-launching in the background and kill them, but my last attempt yielded two that I tried and blacklisted (a feature it has) some apps, yet after booting I was still able to force stop them, implying they still had launched on their own. Is there any app that actually works for this, or is it somehow not possible?

As a side note, many Chinese brands have started preventing applications from starting automatically without being whitelisted in settings (different for each vendor). Examples include Xiaomi (since MIUI 8.1 or 8.2), and some recent ASUS/Lenovo devices.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#30

Post by terminado »

Is it possible to damage human hearing with sufficiently loud pulses above 20Khz?

Most search results point to a miniscule wattage delivered by typical ultrasonic noises, but controlling for wattage, I feel like it might be possible to overdrive a high-frequency pulse to deliver more wattage in the same range.

Also, relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

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