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Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

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Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#21

Post by iamdave »

VonGuard wrote: post #15
iamdave wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

I think the fundamental reason people latch onto it as "Late Stage" is because they see the future of this way of building a society as very grim. And I am inclined to agree with them. Capitalism is one thing, but fundamentalist capitalism, which is preached in the US (not followed, mind you, we have lots of monopolies and very closed markets), is something of a horror show of awful virtues. The trick is, capitalism…

This is probably the best examination that I (individually) been given on the topic, it makes a lot of sense and with my limited exposure to certain aspects of economic theory, I don't have much to disagree with.

This is the root of my 'head-tilt' at certain arguments against the topic of late stage capitalism. As I mentioned in another comment, I'm often seeing memes and groups that poke sticks at participants and individuals who exist within this late stage versus the systems that enable and provide a continuance for some of the issues that cause people to have a problem with where we are.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#22

Post by erikpukinskis »

iamdave wrote: post #3
dopamean wrote: post #2

I thought the phrase was "late stage capitalism" – implying that capitalism is a disease like cancer.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

I am grateful for capitalism, from which I have benefited mightily.

I just don't think it's the end state. It's a stop. The next stop is anarcho-syndicalism, which is much easier with good information tech.

It probably won't be the last stop either, but I expect I'll have to be told by the younger generation what makes sense next, as my brain had been formed in capitalism.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#23

Post by weavejester »

iamdave wrote: post #3
dopamean wrote: post #2

I thought the phrase was "late stage capitalism" – implying that capitalism is a disease like cancer.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

My experience is that people tend not to be against many of the fundamental ideas of capitalism; tit for tat for example is a strategy that we're biologically wired up to favour. This is purely anecdotal, but when I've asked people who identify as being anti-capitalist, their objections are ones specific to our current system, and perhaps not capitalism in a general sense.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#24

Post by thatswrong0 »

Afforess wrote: post #12

Late Stage Capitalism is the realization that mankind produces enough material wealth to satisfy the bottom two tiers of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for every single person in the world and the frustration that we haven't bothered to try.

And the ignorance about the fact that distribution and management of said material wealth has always been and will always be a difficult problem to solve. Yes, we produce enough food in the world such that no one should go hungry. No, we don't have the infrastructure (actual, political, economic) to distribute it.

Organizing people is hard. Dealing with corruption is hard. Nothing suggested by Late Stage Capitalist meme spreaders even comes close to solving those problems.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#25

Post by erikpukinskis »

meri_dian wrote: post #20
erikpukinskis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is taking some there. Not all. Most. The averages look good. When you look outside a standard deviation or two there is intergenerational suffering with no end. So, you're right. As long as you can plug your nose and ignore the people at the very bottom, everything is pretty good!

Under capitalism the people at the very bottom have it much better than they ever have had it, just like the rest of the population. And things continue to improve. In fact it's plausible that as automation picks up it's the people at the bottom who will stand to gain the most.

I assume you're talking about bottom income bracket. I was not. I was talking about bottom in terms of power. Income is only one form of power. The people truly at the bottom are being held there by triangulated cultural practices. Capitalism is not seeking to lift them up because they serve a crucial purpose as a warning to those who might question the social order.

I am thinking of people at the intersection of some combination of poverty, domestic violence, addiction, racism, gender politics, etc. One or two of these issues can be overcome, but when you pile several into one family you get a machine that can be permanently stuck in suffering.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#26

Post by erikpukinskis »

gozur88 wrote: post #4

This term is a combination of spin and wishful thinking by Marxists. Capitalism isn't going anywhere.

Capitalism will never go away. Just as monarchism still exists on various corporate boards in some form. And just as anarchism still exists in some form in a capitalist society.

But capital allocation will cease to be the dominant protocol for social organization.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#27

Post by gozur88 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #26
gozur88 wrote: post #4

This term is a combination of spin and wishful thinking by Marxists. Capitalism isn't going anywhere.

Capitalism will never go away. Just as monarchism still exists on various corporate boards in some form. And just as anarchism still exists in some form in a capitalist society. But capital allocation will cease to be the dominant protocol for social organization.

I don't see any realistic alternative. Capitalism creates wealth more efficiently than any other system, and over the long run even the poorest people in a capitalist country will be wealthier than people in countries with command economies.

The problems we're having today result from corruption, which can happen with any system.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#28

Post by zzzzzzzza »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #25
meri_dian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under capitalism the people at the very bottom have it much better than they ever have had it, just like the rest of the population. And things continue to improve. In fact it's plausible that as automation picks up it's the people at the bottom who will stand to gain the most.

I assume you're talking about bottom income bracket. I was not. I was talking about bottom in terms of power. Income is only one form of power. The people truly at the bottom are being held there by triangulated cultural practices. Capitalism is not seeking to lift them up because they serve a crucial purpose as a warning to those who might question the social order. I am thinking of people at the intersection of som…

"I am thinking of people at the intersection of some combination of poverty, domestic violence, addiction, racism, gender politics, etc."

Have you ever met any of these people? Domestic violence, addiction, poverty; anyone with that trifecta is probably not a very pleasant person to know, much less employ. Giving people with an addiction more resources is not going to help them unless you're talking about opening up a methadone clinic, which is plenty compatible with capitalism.

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#29

Post by [deleted] »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #25
meri_dian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under capitalism the people at the very bottom have it much better than they ever have had it, just like the rest of the population. And things continue to improve. In fact it's plausible that as automation picks up it's the people at the bottom who will stand to gain the most.

I assume you're talking about bottom income bracket. I was not. I was talking about bottom in terms of power. Income is only one form of power. The people truly at the bottom are being held there by triangulated cultural practices. Capitalism is not seeking to lift them up because they serve a crucial purpose as a warning to those who might question the social order. I am thinking of people at the intersection of som…

[deleted]

Re: Why the Phrase 'Late Capitalism' Is Suddenly Everywhere

#30

Post by AnimalMuppet »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #22
iamdave wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some people and some attitudes out there that believe it really is. Some of the same people have no problem biting the hand that feeds them, it seems. Or rather, biting the hand that they're asking "please sir, can I have some more" of.

I am grateful for capitalism, from which I have benefited mightily. I just don't think it's the end state. It's a stop. The next stop is anarcho-syndicalism, which is much easier with good information tech. It probably won't be the last stop either, but I expect I'll have to be told by the younger generation what makes sense next, as my brain had been formed in capitalism.

> The next stop is anarcho-syndicalism...

Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence.

(If you think you do have facts to support that that's the next stage, please share them.)

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