Aurora looks interesting, but it seems to be .Net/windows only?
Esoteric programming paradigms
21–30 of 149 posts
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#22Isn't Lua supposed to be an example of a concatenative language?
Not at all.
The definition I like to use of concatenative language is:
If "X Y" is a legal program, then "X" is a list of tokens and a legal program and "Y" is a list of tokens and a legal program, and semantically, executing "X Y" is equivalent to executing "X" and then executing "Y".
practical implementations often deviate a little from this ideal.
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#23Would like to mention concept-oriented programming [1] which is work in progress but has highly ambitious goals of changing the way we think of programming. The initial idea is to make references active and customized elements of the program which can intercept all accesses to the represented objects. A new programming construct, called concept (hence the name of the approach), describes both behavior of references a…
How does your research interact with object-capability models of computation, as in the E programming language?
(I can be wrong but) as far as I understand E is based on objects and messages as primary mechanisms, that is, we do not know where objects exist, how they are managed and how messages are transferred. Concept-oriented programming (COP) is a references-first approach while objects are defined as being functions of references, that is, object is a derived (secondary) element of the model and the goal is to be able to have full control over this mechanism (custom heap, custom garbage collection, custom access control and security model etc.)
What I see similar in object-capability model and COP is that they both try to treat object access as a highly important part of a system behavior. In COP, I used to write that it is more important what happens during access rather than in the object itself. Hence, being able to make these intermediate actions integral part of the program (and develop good PL for that purpose) is very important.
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#24On concatenative languages, I would like to add Piet[1] as a contender. Plus Piet program could look like 8-bit art (to me). [1] http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html
I once read about Pieter Hintjens' model oriented programming [1] which the idea I have yet to understand. Hope someone can provide more insight on this subject. HN discussion [2]
[1] https://github.com/imatix/gsl [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558007
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#25Will Eve ever take off? I like the thoughts behind it. https://youtu.be/VZQoAKJPbh8 very good talk about the background of eve. When he finally talks about eve you might want to switch to a more recent talk about it.
I believe that Aurora (covered in the article) was some kind of pre-cursor to Eve, by the same Chris Granger.
It was indeed, though Eve is a much more grown up idea than Aurora ever was. It's amazing how little we really understood back then and how far we've come. :)
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#26Isn't Lua supposed to be an example of a concatenative language?
Not really, the C API is stack based but it's concatenative to the degree that a C program uses a stack + heap.
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#27Will Eve ever take off? I like the thoughts behind it. https://youtu.be/VZQoAKJPbh8 very good talk about the background of eve. When he finally talks about eve you might want to switch to a more recent talk about it.
Eve[1] is in the process of becoming a lot more real than it has been up to this point. We've found a great model and discovered a way to build a high performance implementation of it, which means much of the foundational research is finally in place. Over the next couple of weeks, we'll be revamping our website, docs, etc to help people get started building real things with it. :)
There's going to be a lot of really exciting stuff coming over the next few months. We've gathered a set of ideas, evidence, and implementations that have certainly blown us away - we hope others will find it valuable too.
EDIT: I realized I didn't address your initial question. Fwiw, we just recently crossed a really big milestone in terms of usage - more than 40,000 people have now played around with Eve on http://play.witheve.com and we've learned a ton from that experience. Part of the website revamp will be making that workflow simpler and nicer. We have a surprisingly high conversion rate (> 30%), so hopefully we can help smooth out that experience and begin to grow the community more and more.
[1]: http://witheve.com
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#28Aurora looks interesting, but it seems to be .Net/windows only?
That must be a different Aurora. The one mentioned here was never really released, only demo'd at Strange Loop. We subsequently went on to turn that into Eve[1].
[1]: http://witheve.com
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#29Curious. ANI seems to me like an abstract form of graph-parallel programming, where the language itself is the scheduler. There are some production-ready schedulers for GPP, like Intel's TBB[1] (C++), but learning to be effective with this requires a major shift in thinking about code - essentially thinking in graphs. [1] - https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/tutorial-intel-tbb-f...
My team has been working on a Python library called Loman that represents computations as graphs. We've open-sourced it [1][2]. One of our aims is to make it as natural as possible to use graph-based programming, and within an already-familiar programming language. Be interested to know what you think.
[1] https://github.com/janusassetallocation/loman [2] http://loman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/intro.html
Re: Esoteric programming paradigms
#30To this I would add synchronous programming[1], which is particularly suited for interactive or concurrent programs and formal reasoning, and has had success in industry in safety-critical realtime systems. Examples include Esterel[2] and SCADE, and outside realtime, Céu[3] and Eve[4] (the latter is based on Dedalus[5], which combines SP with logic programming). As someone who loves formal methods and believes most m…
Yeah, there are a lot of interesting benefits to synchronous programming that haven't been explored in a wider context and we're excited to be able to do so. Figuring out how to actually implement Eve's semantics has been quite a quest and unfortunately the implementations of most of those languages don't really fit us. Fortunately, we've put some really interesting things together lately that have produced some very surprising performance numbers for us, so hopefully that's finally resolved and we can move on to how GALS and the like apply in our world. :)