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Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

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Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#21

Post by erikpukinskis »

RichardHeart wrote: post #12
erikpukinskis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is an autonomous AI middleman, but yes it is a middleman. One whose plans and actions you can determine determinalistically. > Cash is King The value of cash is subject to the whims of the issuer. The value of a cryptocurrency is subject to the whims of a global market. They can also be trivially "forked" by creating colored coins which allow you to create a slightly different autonomous AI currency, if the…

1. They only accept euros. So you get to multiply the euro risk times the ethereum risk times their oracle keeping your balance on ethereum risk. 2. Ethereum has already human intervention rolled back millions of dollars of transactions in "the dao" and they chosen winning and losing implementations whenever there's a network split due to their dual codebases trying to be bug for bug perfect in consensus. 3. You can'…

Testing is the right place for millions to be accidentally lost.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#22

Post by erikpukinskis »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #16
erikpukinskis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is an autonomous AI middleman, but yes it is a middleman. One whose plans and actions you can determine determinalistically. > Cash is King The value of cash is subject to the whims of the issuer. The value of a cryptocurrency is subject to the whims of a global market. They can also be trivially "forked" by creating colored coins which allow you to create a slightly different autonomous AI currency, if the…

Imagine every service station across now accepts Bitcoin or Ethereum. Ten years pass. Most vendors now have 10-ish year old Point Of Sales systems. How are you going to convince everyone to upgrade their POS (either software upgrade or potentially requiring a hardware upgrade) to accept your newly forked cryptocurrency. Generally speaking, the point of currency is to be able to exchange it for goods or services. That…

Cash value is not determined by the global market because the issuer can change the supply.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#23

Post by scott_ci »

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how this is metered & controlled, but it seems promising.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#24

Post by haddr »

scott_ci wrote: post #23

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how th…

I wonder how they justify the use of proof of work to maintain consensus. Wouldn't it consume a significant amount of the electricity generated by those solar panels?

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#25

Post by scott_ci »

haddr wrote: post #24
scott_ci wrote: post #23

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how th…

I wonder how they justify the use of proof of work to maintain consensus. Wouldn't it consume a significant amount of the electricity generated by those solar panels?

the plan for ethereum is to switch to proof-of-stake, but that has definitely not been figured out yet. I could also see a more private blockchain supporting stuff like this. Maybe it's not open to anonymous participants, but is still more distributed than a single company.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#26

Post by sanswork »

scott_ci wrote: post #23

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how th…

How does a blockchain make that setup easier? You need to a system in place to track who is selling to who so if you have that it's just as easy to have it do bank transfers as it is blockchain ones.

Do you also imagine there would be wires running between each set of properties? If not you still need a third party to manage the centralized distribution network in which case you're not going to sell directly to your neighbors you're going to sell to the grid.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#27

Post by SirensOfTitan »

haddr wrote: post #24
scott_ci wrote: post #23

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how th…

I wonder how they justify the use of proof of work to maintain consensus. Wouldn't it consume a significant amount of the electricity generated by those solar panels?

Proof of stake (PoS) is certainly the future for consensus. Ethereum has a built-in proof-of-work difficulty ramp up already started (a time bomb) and has had plans to move to PoS since the beginning.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#28

Post by SirensOfTitan »

scott_ci wrote: post #25
haddr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they justify the use of proof of work to maintain consensus. Wouldn't it consume a significant amount of the electricity generated by those solar panels?

the plan for ethereum is to switch to proof-of-stake, but that has definitely not been figured out yet. I could also see a more private blockchain supporting stuff like this. Maybe it's not open to anonymous participants, but is still more distributed than a single company.

I find movement to PoS perhaps the most important milestone toward large scale adoption of Ethereum or any cryptocurrency-related technology. PoW just isn't feasible for large scale deployment: way too much energy is wasted for consensus.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#29

Post by davidgerard »

iLoch wrote: post #19
milansuk wrote: post #9

Do they know that all transactions will be public and great resource for competitors? Do they know that blockchain transactions need few confirmations to be trusted and mining takes time?

No they probably didn't do any research before launching this project.

You might be surprised how little research companies do before launching blockchain initiatives. After creating the Hyperledger consortium, IBM were actually surprised when it turned out business didn't want to share all their dealings with all their competitors, but only with the specific other business each deal is with:

https://lists.hyperledger.org/pipermail/hyperledger-requirem...

https://lists.hyperledger.org/pipermail/hyperledger-technica...

The answer is, of course, that most "blockchain initiatives" are hypeware.

Re: Germany's Energy Giant Launches Ethereum-Based Electric Car Charging Stations

#30

Post by skybrian »

haddr wrote: post #24
scott_ci wrote: post #23

There's a recent podcast about this and blockchain + energy sector in general: https://epicenter.tv/episode/174/ Why blockchain? It enables peer-to-peer buying and selling of electricity (no middle man), which becomes more interesting as the grid itself is becoming more decentralized with solar, etc. Imagine being able to buy and sell electricity directly between you and your neighbors. Lots of questions about how th…

I wonder how they justify the use of proof of work to maintain consensus. Wouldn't it consume a significant amount of the electricity generated by those solar panels?

I'm guessing there's wasted electricity that solar panels generate at inconvenient times? If the power is "free" (not being used for anything else) at least they can mine Bitcoins.
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