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The End of Men

theatlantic.com

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Re: The End of Men

#21

Post by axle »

cageface wrote: post #14
axle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is really that you likely have not been anything else apart from a male WASP. See, there is no institution working against you. These things you are complaining about not getting are not the main product, they are shortcuts. A scholarship is not the normal way of studying, it's a shortcut way, for people who have something working against them. A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. The…

A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. They go somewhere, and they are instantly assumed to be less competent. That's why these things are given to them - to help out the weak, not to push YOU down. Those things are legs-up to equalise the playing field - you, as a WASP already are at the starting line, asking to get those things is to get another 10 yards. Allowing this for the sake of argument, a…

When the playing field is very clearly level. And right now, it's really not. Go to small towns in the U.S south and see how black people live. And go ask women how they are treated in companies.

Re: The End of Men

#22

Post by dfranke »

sliverstorm wrote: post #11
acangiano wrote: post #6

> What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? Alternative theory: Society is failing our boys.

I'd argue not failing but carefully emasculating. Old-fashioned masculinity has been systematically devalued, and many of its' traits demonized.

I've seen this asserted dozens of times before, and even though I agree with the observation, the way I see it phrased invariably drives me nuts. Out of all the traditionally "masculine" traits that are in decline, the ones most worth saving are ruggedness and personal responsibility, yet the subtext of your assertion is a portrayal of men as helpless victims. Social change is not a conspiracy. There's nothing "careful" or "systematic" about masculinity being devalued. If men don't like it, and we shouldn't, then the way to reverse the trend is simply for us to stand up for ourselves and refuse to take part.

Re: The End of Men

#23

Post by yummyfajitas »

axle wrote: post #10
Groxx wrote: post #5

What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply hostile to males in return for all the past hostility to females? edit: apparently axle replied while I had my lament on the state of scholarships. Summarized: out of literally thousands available after pre-filtered (however poorly), I had to toss out all but a dozen or two because I'm white and m…

The problem is really that you likely have not been anything else apart from a male WASP. See, there is no institution working against you. These things you are complaining about not getting are not the main product, they are shortcuts. A scholarship is not the normal way of studying, it's a shortcut way, for people who have something working against them. A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. The…

They go somewhere, and they are instantly assumed to be less competent.

That's a correct assumption for many groups (e.g., college students) due to the effects of affirmative action.

By lowering the standards/imposing quotas for group X, that group will probably not meet the higher standards of everyone else. Thus, everyone will have to assume that members of X are less competent.

Oh, to answer your question: if I could become black, I would.

Re: The End of Men

#24

Post by foco24 »

Women currently make up the majority of workers and college graduates because of corruption. Colleges decide admission and grant scholarships based on grades from high school that are 75%+ non math/science * and 90%+ taught by women, who like women more. They then graduate and go into jobs, like teachers or bureaucrats, where being a pedantic, to-the-letter PITA is good for your career.

*Of the 25% that is "science", the bulk of it isn't really, it's just memorizing definitions. I remember in my 9th grade physics class we had to memorize that the definition of a "virtual image" was an image that appeared behind a mirror. They never went into any detail about the physics of lenses, they just found a science term and made everybody memorize it.

Re: The End of Men

#25

Post by codingthewheel »

This article is okay, somewhat sexist. I'm surprised it passed the first round of editorial review. Imagine the uproar if a man published an article flirting with "the end of women" in a major publication. This is a feminist claptrap with a lot of anger behind it, and intended to push buttons. It amounts to "girls are better than boys HAHA!"

I'm quite sure men will do just fine over the coming decades, thank you kindly, Ms. Hanna Rosin, and sorry to disappoint. :)

In the meantime I'll make a note not to do any more reading over at the Atlantic. Sad for me; they were once a great rag.

(edited for tone)

Re: The End of Men

#27

Post by nerme »

On the bright side, I don't think many people reading Hacker News fall in to the category of brutish, construction worker-type. :)

I did work construction when I was younger, and I must say, I enjoyed it immensely. I always love to help out someone build a shed or throw up some drywall.

It's just plain fun to build things with your hands, even if you're mainly doing the work with your finger-tips these days.

Re: The End of Men

#28

Post by jerf »

axle wrote: post #20
jerf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They go somewhere, and they are instantly assumed to be less competent." So, why are "they" the majority of the workforce, a clear majority of college graduates, and trending up in both cases? At some point it's time to stop arguing about theory and look about you . It's over. The male-WASP free ride is over. Maybe we've hit balance, maybe we haven't, but if we don't want to shoot right past the balance we better st…

Exactly. So you believe your life would be better and easier if you were black or a woman, right? Would you agree to be black if it were possible right now?

Were you planning on even engaging with my point? I'm not sure why I should try to engage with yours if you're not going to engage with mine and instead fire back trite gotchas.

Apparently as a black woman I'm more likely to get a degree and more likely to get a job, so what was your question again? Deprogram yourself and look around you. You're running old code. If there is still vast reservoirs of systematic racism and sexism floating around they sure don't seem to be very effective!

Re: The End of Men

#29

Post by erlanger »

sbt wrote: post #13

being a white male sometimes feels like the entire fucking universe is suffering from some sort of inferiority complex.

It's also excellent. I regret that our privilege necessarily implies disadvantage for everyone else, but we have it far easier than most. It seems that no amount of anti-discriminatory measures can erase this admittedly positive prejudice.

Re: The End of Men

#30

Post by rubashov »

Alex3917 wrote: post #19
hugh3 wrote: post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

From the New York Times: "Their [research] also suggests that the disadvantages that poverty imposes on children aren’t primarily about material goods. True, every poor child would benefit from having more books in his home and more nutritious food to eat (and money certainly makes it easier to carry out a program of concerted cultivation). But the real advantages that middle-class children gain come from more elusiv…

This ignores the nature over nurture reality of the situation, I'm afraid. Genes matter.
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