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Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

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Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#21

Post by axod »

billturner wrote: post #2

I have a feeling that printing, filling out, and then mailing off a mechanical license for every song, and then waiting by the mailbox for the results won't make for compelling television. I understand the message behind the weblog post, but I think it's asking a little too much for them to tackle copyright on Glee.

You're missing the point, but it would actually make a pretty good episode. Here's my attempt:

  * RIAA baddies turn up in suits demand money
  * Glee club hasn't got the money
  * Will asks for money from Sues budget. Obviously she
    says no way. She needs to save for the hovercraft.
  * They decide that Glee club can no longer sing copyrighted music
  * Your task for the week? "Original song". Compose an original song.
  * They all do cool funky new tracks
  * Turns out the RIAA guys were listening,
    and have a change of heart they work out some deal or something.
    Maybe the original songs are *so* hot that the RIAA want in on profits.
  * Yay! all is good.
They can then sprinkle in as many of the issues and arguments about copyright as they see fit/are allowed to.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#22

Post by abstractbill »

axod wrote: post #21
billturner wrote: post #2

I have a feeling that printing, filling out, and then mailing off a mechanical license for every song, and then waiting by the mailbox for the results won't make for compelling television. I understand the message behind the weblog post, but I think it's asking a little too much for them to tackle copyright on Glee.

You're missing the point, but it would actually make a pretty good episode. Here's my attempt: * RIAA baddies turn up in suits demand money * Glee club hasn't got the money * Will asks for money from Sues budget. Obviously she says no way. She needs to save for the hovercraft. * They decide that Glee club can no longer sing copyrighted music * Your task for the week? "Original song". Compose an original song. * They…

I'd prefer a script where the RIAA gets some kind of comeuppance, but your version is probably more believable ;)

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#23

Post by pigbucket »

So you tell me — what promotes knowledge and learning: letting people rearrange music and learn to use a video camera, or threatening new artists with $150,000 fines?

Since this is a relatively cheap rhetorical question, let's play devil's advocate: 1) forcing people to make new content is obviously good in the way of promoting learning; 2) you can learn technique without using protected content 3) there are already some exceptions in place for educational and religious use of protected content (right now if you do "Like a Virgin" as an allegory of being born again as a Christian, do it in the Church hall, and don't make any money, you should be okay).

The exceptions are probably too few and too narrow. A more useful discussion would explain how they should be broadened.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#24

Post by axod »

abstractbill wrote: post #22
axod wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point, but it would actually make a pretty good episode. Here's my attempt: * RIAA baddies turn up in suits demand money * Glee club hasn't got the money * Will asks for money from Sues budget. Obviously she says no way. She needs to save for the hovercraft. * They decide that Glee club can no longer sing copyrighted music * Your task for the week? "Original song". Compose an original song. * They…

I'd prefer a script where the RIAA gets some kind of comeuppance, but your version is probably more believable ;)

Yeah I agree. It depends on how brave they feel as to how far they push. But it's definitely something that could be worked into the Glee formula.

An alternate scenario would go something like Rachel is sharing her singing on youtube and gets a court order served for copyright violation. Will decides to represent her in court since it's something he believes in passionately (And he has to be the hero). They go to court and Argue how repressive copyrights are and how they prevent people from expressing their true selves (Something Glee club is there for) and showcasing their talent.

You'd have to end with a non-heavy/funny bit though, so perhaps the copyright owner bursts in court and says he's a massive 'Rachel' fan and she can sing any songs she likes of his with no charge.

For double Glee comedic value and irony, the artist would be someone who has been ridiculously outspoken in favor of the RIAA and copyrights in real life.

(I've watched Glee too much lol)

Actually, I'd say you could combine this with my previous idea in the same show and maybe even intertwine the story lines a bit.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#25

Post by MichaelSalib »

jbarciauskas wrote: post #19
natrius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article talks only about recordings and mashups. The former aren't covered by such an agreement, and it's not clear if the latter are.

Huh? It's talking about glee clubs, and in particular the glee club on Glee, who mostly do live performances. The article begins, "For a show that regularly tackles thorny issues like teen pregnancy and alcohol abuse, it’s surprising that a million dollars worth of lawbreaking would go unmentioned." But this premise seems to be faulty - there's no indication that there is a million dollars worth of law-breaking invol…

presumably they aren't actually recording mashups but writing them to be performed live

I thought it was very common for performing artists to record their own work and even to share it with other people on the internet. Youtube has many many such recordings. ASCAP licenses will not cover these activities.

I guess there's no problem as long as performing artists never record or post such recordings online.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#26

Post by pigbucket »

axod wrote: post #21
billturner wrote: post #2

I have a feeling that printing, filling out, and then mailing off a mechanical license for every song, and then waiting by the mailbox for the results won't make for compelling television. I understand the message behind the weblog post, but I think it's asking a little too much for them to tackle copyright on Glee.

You're missing the point, but it would actually make a pretty good episode. Here's my attempt: * RIAA baddies turn up in suits demand money * Glee club hasn't got the money * Will asks for money from Sues budget. Obviously she says no way. She needs to save for the hovercraft. * They decide that Glee club can no longer sing copyrighted music * Your task for the week? "Original song". Compose an original song. * They…

This would make a brilliant show. If they do it, you should sue them.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#27

Post by MichaelSalib »

pigbucket wrote: post #23

So you tell me — what promotes knowledge and learning: letting people rearrange music and learn to use a video camera, or threatening new artists with $150,000 fines? Since this is a relatively cheap rhetorical question, let's play devil's advocate: 1) forcing people to make new content is obviously good in the way of promoting learning; 2) you can learn technique without using protected content 3) there are already…

It is not a rhetorical trick: copyright is only constitutional BECAUSE it promotes knowledge and learning. The fact that there are ways to learn and develop knowledge without infringing on an absurdly over-broad copyright are irrelevant.

And to be honest, I'm not sure it is physically possible to learn such things without committing any infringement. You might be able to do so without committing any infringement that a powerful copyright holder cares about, but how many stories can you think of right now that don't bear substantial similarity to some story that some author wrote in the last century? Jessica Littman wrote in her book on copyright that you infringe upon copyright whenever you watch a movie and then imagine the same film with a different actor playing the lead. Obviously, that's not a practical problem, but if so much basic intellectual activity qualifies as infringement, even the transient creations needed to learn new skills might be difficult.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#28

Post by pigbucket »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #27
pigbucket wrote: post #23

So you tell me — what promotes knowledge and learning: letting people rearrange music and learn to use a video camera, or threatening new artists with $150,000 fines? Since this is a relatively cheap rhetorical question, let's play devil's advocate: 1) forcing people to make new content is obviously good in the way of promoting learning; 2) you can learn technique without using protected content 3) there are already…

It is not a rhetorical trick: copyright is only constitutional BECAUSE it promotes knowledge and learning. The fact that there are ways to learn and develop knowledge without infringing on an absurdly over-broad copyright are irrelevant. And to be honest, I'm not sure it is physically possible to learn such things without committing any infringement. You might be able to do so without committing any infringement that…

The fact that there are ways to learn and develop knowledge without infringing on an absurdly over-broad copyright are irrelevant

It's relevant to the extent that it would have to be true in order to argue that the $150,000 fine promotes learning. The fact that I make that argument as "devil's advocate" and that I've got to sing "Like a Virgin" as an allegory of finding Jesus means I accept the law might be absurd. I would like greater insight into and specificity concerning the nature of that absurdity (the burden of the argument I quoted was being carried by a rhetorical question), and, for that reason, and for what it's worth, I find your comment more interesting and more substantive than the original post.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#29

Post by wazoox »

alanh wrote: post #20

Things are about to get a lot worse with ACTA. Imagine you Internet access being shut off for sharing an unauthorized, amateur remake or mashup like those disccussed in the article!

Fortunately India an China will do their best to torpedo this monstrosity.

Re: Copyright: The Elephant in the Middle of the Glee Club

#30

Post by justinweiss »

billturner wrote: post #2

I have a feeling that printing, filling out, and then mailing off a mechanical license for every song, and then waiting by the mailbox for the results won't make for compelling television. I understand the message behind the weblog post, but I think it's asking a little too much for them to tackle copyright on Glee.

Sports Night did a great job with this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP9U_mslaWU

(there's something strangely meta in linking to an infringing video about copyright infringement)

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