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Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

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Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#21

Post by aub3bhat »

golergka wrote: post #11

Despite the title of the article, I see one thing unmentioned: general reputation of incompetence. However, nearly everybody I know in IT, from different countries and backgrounds, knows "Indian code" to be a meme of not only bad quality but gross, mind-boggling incompetence. I don't have a personal experience with indian companies and/or engineers, so don't have a personal opinion on that matter. If anything, it see…

Come on what general reputation of incompetence? Just take a look at proportion of indians at top engineering and management positions in Tech Companies.

This "meme" is nothing but some racist stereotype pushed by old commenters on Slashdot style website who paint themselves to be next turing award material.

Guess what the Market never lies and you get what you pay for! Those who pay the best/most still have large number of indians throughout the hierarchy.

So that meme is nothing but outright xenophobia not too different from the ones propagated in past against Italians, Irish, Japanese or Jews.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#22

Post by bendermon »

posguy wrote: post #15
bendermon wrote: post #12

American salaries along with low taxes are way more attractive even compared to Nordic countries which apart from high taxes also have some of the highest living costs in the world. The whole debate on suppressing incomes is quite debatable. Though one can see the argument for people who have spent decades working exclusively on legacy systems. When these become cost centres, companies try and outsource them. The bri…

Bringing in low cost foreign workers to maintain a system directly drags down the average wage, hurting Americans in the IT industry and lowering their income & benefits. Foreign workers are a tool that companies like to use to scare IT workers away from organizing & unionizing, keeping the Americans they do employ under foot and poorly paid. As an example, Kroger has a support center for its Fred Meyer brand of stor…

What you say is true, but as I mentioned that works only with legacy systems, which are often just cost centres.

There are in general very few people who can work with or want to work with legacy systems and therefore does demand a very good pay but it does not add any value to the American economy.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#23

Post by sreenadh »

newsat13 wrote: post #10

I hope the India govt moves fast now. The should take this opportunity to improve local infrastructure and put in reforms for a domestic software economy. The TCS, Infosys & Wipro helped kickstart the software revolution in India but they need to take this to a better conclusion than it is now. We need product based companies in India and we need a strong local domestic market. It needs to retain it's talent at home.…

TCS, Infosys & Wipro are more of a sweatshops than innovative companies...

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#24

Post by xbmcuser »

golergka wrote: post #11

Despite the title of the article, I see one thing unmentioned: general reputation of incompetence. However, nearly everybody I know in IT, from different countries and backgrounds, knows "Indian code" to be a meme of not only bad quality but gross, mind-boggling incompetence. I don't have a personal experience with indian companies and/or engineers, so don't have a personal opinion on that matter. If anything, it see…

Good quality Indian coder won't be working for an hourly wage. If they are really good they have already moved on to the fortune 500.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#25

Post by rebossz »

Visas are essential only for jobs for which face-2-face spitting is deemed a must. I am a programmer. I do not remember to ever have done a project where this was the case. If the client insists on unimportant issues, already when just recruiting programmers, what is the likelihood that his project will NOT fail? Every piece of bullshit is always just the beginning. You should expect an entire avalanche of bullshit to follow after that. In that sense, Indian programmers who worry about visas, undoubtedly deserve to worry about them, while the ones who don't worry about visas, know exactly why they do not need to worry about them.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#26

Post by throwaway31233 »

newsat13 wrote: post #10

I hope the India govt moves fast now. The should take this opportunity to improve local infrastructure and put in reforms for a domestic software economy. The TCS, Infosys & Wipro helped kickstart the software revolution in India but they need to take this to a better conclusion than it is now. We need product based companies in India and we need a strong local domestic market. It needs to retain it's talent at home.…

How can they ? India's education system/institutions is meant/nourished to serve the English-speaking countries.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#27

Post by usgroup »

As a small business owner, revenue streams are fickle these days. It makes pay as you go, zero hour labour alluring even if it's more expensive because it can be planned according to the revenue stream.

This same discipline leads one to encapsulate work better. A senior data scientist goes for £700/d in London; theres a significant advantage to being able to use her counterpart in Delhi.

It is salary arbing. It is also inevitable. Companies buy services that they could perform themselves more often than not, in order to keep focus on core business. After a certain price they don't.

Forcing the immigrants away pushes up prices, which literally changes the internals of companies and how and what they buy over time. this is constantly afoot but there's an inherent risk that any given change may be for the worse.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#30

Post by rebossz »

posguy wrote: post #15
bendermon wrote: post #12

American salaries along with low taxes are way more attractive even compared to Nordic countries which apart from high taxes also have some of the highest living costs in the world. The whole debate on suppressing incomes is quite debatable. Though one can see the argument for people who have spent decades working exclusively on legacy systems. When these become cost centres, companies try and outsource them. The bri…

Bringing in low cost foreign workers to maintain a system directly drags down the average wage, hurting Americans in the IT industry and lowering their income & benefits. Foreign workers are a tool that companies like to use to scare IT workers away from organizing & unionizing, keeping the Americans they do employ under foot and poorly paid. As an example, Kroger has a support center for its Fred Meyer brand of stor…

> hurting Americans in the IT industry ...

Well, the ones who are hurting, would always be hurting. They really do not need the Indians to assist them to hurt. They will perfectly-well hurt all alone by themselves. But then again, our beloved Donald Trump has promised them to do something about their hurting. He will force employers all over to hire them, regardless of whether these employers like that prospect or not. Donald Trump will institute forced recruitment of Americans who would otherwise hurt, if nobody were forced at gun point to recruit them ...

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